The Ukraine war thread
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Lists of weapons he wants.... Zelensky says it's Groundhog Day.
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@George-K said in The Ukraine war thread:
This means WAR!
(ffs)
Conscription will really improve the quality of the Russian forces no end
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Firing missiles from a ship in the Black Sea ≠ War.
Sinking said ship with cruise missile = War.
What kind of sick thinking is this?
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Firing missiles from a ship in the Black Sea ≠ War.
Sinking said ship with cruise missile = War.
What kind of sick thinking is this?
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Ukrainian officials have run more than 8,600 facial recognition searches on dead or captured Russian soldiers in the 50 days since Moscow’s invasion began, using the scans to identify bodies and contact hundreds of their families in what may be one of the most gruesome applications of the technology to date.
The country’s IT Army, a volunteer force of hackers and activists that takes its direction from the Ukrainian government, says it has used those identifications to inform the families of the deaths of 582 Russians, including by sending them photos of the abandoned corpses.
The Ukrainians champion the use of face-scanning software from the U.S. tech firm Clearview AI as a brutal but effective way to stir up dissent inside Russia, discourage other fighters and hasten an end to a devastating war.
The West’s solidarity with Ukraine makes it tempting to support such a radical act designed to capitalize on family grief, said Stephanie Hare, a surveillance researcher in London. But contacting soldiers’ parents, she said, is “classic psychological warfare” and could set a dangerous new standard for future conflicts.
“If it were Russian soldiers doing this with Ukrainian mothers, we might say, ‘Oh, my God, that’s barbaric,’ ” she said. “And is it actually working? Or is it making them say: ‘Look at these lawless, cruel Ukrainians, doing this to our boys?’ ”
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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Ukrainian officials have run more than 8,600 facial recognition searches on dead or captured Russian soldiers in the 50 days since Moscow’s invasion began, using the scans to identify bodies and contact hundreds of their families in what may be one of the most gruesome applications of the technology to date.
The country’s IT Army, a volunteer force of hackers and activists that takes its direction from the Ukrainian government, says it has used those identifications to inform the families of the deaths of 582 Russians, including by sending them photos of the abandoned corpses.
The Ukrainians champion the use of face-scanning software from the U.S. tech firm Clearview AI as a brutal but effective way to stir up dissent inside Russia, discourage other fighters and hasten an end to a devastating war.
The West’s solidarity with Ukraine makes it tempting to support such a radical act designed to capitalize on family grief, said Stephanie Hare, a surveillance researcher in London. But contacting soldiers’ parents, she said, is “classic psychological warfare” and could set a dangerous new standard for future conflicts.
“If it were Russian soldiers doing this with Ukrainian mothers, we might say, ‘Oh, my God, that’s barbaric,’ ” she said. “And is it actually working? Or is it making them say: ‘Look at these lawless, cruel Ukrainians, doing this to our boys?’ ”
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@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
Yes it’s accold and heartless tactic, but is it a war crime?
Probably notNo.Supposedly, photographing POWs and KIAs does qualify as war crimes. There was some discussion about this in the early days where Russian POWs were videoed saying they didn't know why they were there, etc.
I'm not disputing the efficacy of the tactic, just thinking how the Russians can use this as propaganda.
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/03/02/does-the-russian-pows-violate-the-geneva-conventions/
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The International Red Cross and other international humanitarian groups have long condemned the filming for POWs for propaganda or public messaging.
“Being exposed to ‘public curiosity’ as a prisoner of war, even when such exposure is not accompanied by insulting remarks or actions, is humiliating in itself and therefore specifically prohibited. For the purposes of the present article, ‘public’ should be interpreted as referring to anyone who is not directly involved in handling the prisoners of war, including other members of the Detaining Power. Exposure to public curiosity can take many forms. The prohibition undoubtedly covers parading prisoners in public. Moreover, prisoners must not be exposed to humiliation when they leave their camp for work, are transferred to another facility or are being repatriated. In modern conflicts, the prohibition also covers, subject to the considerations discussed below, the disclosure of photographic and video images, recordings of interrogations or private conversations or personal correspondence or any other private data, irrespective of which public communication channel is used, including the internet. Although this is seemingly different from being marched through a hostile crowd, such disclosure could still be humiliating and jeopardize the safety of the prisoners’ families and of the prisoners themselves once they are released.”
During the Iraq War and other conflicts, the United States has objected to the filming of American POWs as a violation of Article 13.
There have been debates over the use of photos where the identity of POWs are obscured but that is not the case in the Ukrainian footage.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
-
Ukrainian officials have run more than 8,600 facial recognition searches on dead or captured Russian soldiers in the 50 days since Moscow’s invasion began, using the scans to identify bodies and contact hundreds of their families in what may be one of the most gruesome applications of the technology to date.
The country’s IT Army, a volunteer force of hackers and activists that takes its direction from the Ukrainian government, says it has used those identifications to inform the families of the deaths of 582 Russians, including by sending them photos of the abandoned corpses.
The Ukrainians champion the use of face-scanning software from the U.S. tech firm Clearview AI as a brutal but effective way to stir up dissent inside Russia, discourage other fighters and hasten an end to a devastating war.
The West’s solidarity with Ukraine makes it tempting to support such a radical act designed to capitalize on family grief, said Stephanie Hare, a surveillance researcher in London. But contacting soldiers’ parents, she said, is “classic psychological warfare” and could set a dangerous new standard for future conflicts.
“If it were Russian soldiers doing this with Ukrainian mothers, we might say, ‘Oh, my God, that’s barbaric,’ ” she said. “And is it actually working? Or is it making them say: ‘Look at these lawless, cruel Ukrainians, doing this to our boys?’ ”
@George-K said in The Ukraine war thread:
Ukrainian officials have run more than 8,600 facial recognition searches on dead or captured Russian soldiers in the 50 days since Moscow’s invasion began, using the scans to identify bodies and contact hundreds of their families in what may be one of the most gruesome applications of the technology to date.
I don't understand how the identification works. They can run a face scanner on dead bodies, of course, but what data are they using to identify the face? I don't assume they have face data or even just photos of all or most members of the Russian armed forces.
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@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
Yes it’s accold and heartless tactic, but is it a war crime?
Probably notNo.Supposedly, photographing POWs and KIAs does qualify as war crimes. There was some discussion about this in the early days where Russian POWs were videoed saying they didn't know why they were there, etc.
I'm not disputing the efficacy of the tactic, just thinking how the Russians can use this as propaganda.
https://jonathanturley.org/2022/03/02/does-the-russian-pows-violate-the-geneva-conventions/
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The International Red Cross and other international humanitarian groups have long condemned the filming for POWs for propaganda or public messaging.
“Being exposed to ‘public curiosity’ as a prisoner of war, even when such exposure is not accompanied by insulting remarks or actions, is humiliating in itself and therefore specifically prohibited. For the purposes of the present article, ‘public’ should be interpreted as referring to anyone who is not directly involved in handling the prisoners of war, including other members of the Detaining Power. Exposure to public curiosity can take many forms. The prohibition undoubtedly covers parading prisoners in public. Moreover, prisoners must not be exposed to humiliation when they leave their camp for work, are transferred to another facility or are being repatriated. In modern conflicts, the prohibition also covers, subject to the considerations discussed below, the disclosure of photographic and video images, recordings of interrogations or private conversations or personal correspondence or any other private data, irrespective of which public communication channel is used, including the internet. Although this is seemingly different from being marched through a hostile crowd, such disclosure could still be humiliating and jeopardize the safety of the prisoners’ families and of the prisoners themselves once they are released.”
During the Iraq War and other conflicts, the United States has objected to the filming of American POWs as a violation of Article 13.
There have been debates over the use of photos where the identity of POWs are obscured but that is not the case in the Ukrainian footage.
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I wonder if they learned anything or if it will be the same clusterfuck in a new location. I suspect they will focus on Donbas and declare victory on or near May 9.
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I wonder if they learned anything or if it will be the same clusterfuck in a new location. I suspect they will focus on Donbas and declare victory on or near May 9.
That’s my hunch as well. This time round logistics “should be” easier being that the whole of the Donbas borders Russia itself. However they are coming up against battle hardened Ukrainian troops in strong defensive positions. It could easily turn into a meat grinder if the Russians again rely on conscripts and the Ukrainians successfully continue to deploy the new weaponry coming into the country from NATO. In the end though I think just weight of numbers will eventually favour the Russians.
If the Kremlin can stop with the Donbas and the land corridor along the Sea of Azov to Crimea, that might be the victory sufficient to cause Putin to ratchet down his military campaign and engage in diplomacy. However, something tells me any negotiated armistice in the near future will be more result of mutual exhaustion on both sides and untenable in the long run so long as Putin remains in power.
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That’s my hunch as well. This time round logistics “should be” easier being that the whole of the Donbas borders Russia itself. However they are coming up against battle hardened Ukrainian troops in strong defensive positions. It could easily turn into a meat grinder if the Russians again rely on conscripts and the Ukrainians successfully continue to deploy the new weaponry coming into the country from NATO. In the end though I think just weight of numbers will eventually favour the Russians.
If the Kremlin can stop with the Donbas and the land corridor along the Sea of Azov to Crimea, that might be the victory sufficient to cause Putin to ratchet down his military campaign and engage in diplomacy. However, something tells me any negotiated armistice in the near future will be more result of mutual exhaustion on both sides and untenable in the long run so long as Putin remains in power.
@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
That’s my hunch as well. This time round logistics “should be” easier being that the whole of the Donbas borders Russia itself. However they are coming up against battle hardened Ukrainian troops in strong defensive positions. It could easily turn into a meat grinder if the Russians again rely on conscripts and the Ukrainians successfully continue to deploy the new weaponry coming into the country from NATO. In the end though I think just weight of numbers will eventually favour the Russians.
If the Kremlin can stop with the Donbas and the land corridor along the Sea of Azov to Crimea, that might be the victory sufficient to cause Putin to ratchet down his military campaign and engage in diplomacy. However, something tells me any negotiated armistice in the near future will be more result of mutual exhaustion on both sides and untenable in the long run so long as Putin remains in power.
Agreed. I feel this will not go well for the Ukrainians. The only positive things I see is the influx of weaponry and hardware from Europe and the US and the fact that the Russians are, more and more, relying on poorly-trained conscripts. I've read rumors that they are drafting 16 year olds into service.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
