The Ukraine war thread
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wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 10:09 last edited by
Massive
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wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 11:44 last edited by George K
Ukraine says it damaged Russian flagship, crew evacuates
Ukraine said its forces struck and seriously damaged the flagship of Russia’s Black Sea fleet, dealing a potentially major setback to Moscow’s troops as they try to regroup for a renewed offensive in eastern Ukraine after retreating from much of the north, including the capital.
Russia said Thursday the entire crew of the Moskva, a warship that would typically have 500 sailors on board, was forced to evacuate after a fire overnight and also reported it was badly damaged. But it did not acknowledge any attack, which, in addition to any practical impact, would also deal a major blow to Russian prestige seven weeks into a war that is already widely seen as a historic blunder.
The damage to the ship came hours after some of Ukraine’s allies sought to rally new support for the embattled country. On a visit with leaders from three other EU countries on Russia’s doorstep who fear they could next be in Moscow’s sights, Lithuanian President Gitanas Nauseda declared that “the fight for Europe’s future is happening here.”
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wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 12:12 last edited by
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wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 13:04 last edited by jon-nyc
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wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 13:57 last edited by Mik
@jon-nyc said in The Ukraine war thread:
David Patraeus and Niall Ferguson. A good read.
Very good read. I particularly liked this Petraeus quote:
"The idea of fighting in a country where everyone hates you and will do anything they can to frustrate what you’re trying to achieve is mind-boggling to me. I can’t imagine what it would be like."
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wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 14:43 last edited by
What George and Mik already stated plus Ferguson’s statement:
“ Another aspect of the war that’s interesting to me is that in some ways we’re seeing a familiar battle between an empire and a nation state. And indeed, the war seems to be forging Ukraine as a nation state even as it weakens Russia as an empire.”
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wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 17:09 last edited by Aqua Letifer
Nukes threatened if Sweden or Finland join NATO.
My question is, what about the interim period between NATO application and membership? I know they're working on security guarantees but how is the rest of the world going to view an attack from Russia during this interim period?
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wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 18:13 last edited by
I don't see any way the Russian army could mount an effective conventional attack on Scandinavia. It's a bluff. Using nuclear weapons would make Russia a pariah for the foreseeable future and they cannot possibly win a nuclear exchange with NATO.
Even if he eventually occupies Ukraine he won't be able to hold it at any acceptable cost in blood and treasure. Surely he must know this by now.
I've read that Russian troops have been told that the war must be over, one way or another, for the May 9 WWII victory celebration. Perhaps Putin will claim Donetsk and Luhansk and declare victory.
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Nukes threatened if Sweden or Finland join NATO.
My question is, what about the interim period between NATO application and membership? I know they're working on security guarantees but how is the rest of the world going to view an attack from Russia during this interim period?
wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 18:15 last edited by RenaudaSabre rattling. It means nothing and I call B. S. to the threat. Those are highly mobile systems that can be set in place at the drop of a hat and have a range that enables them to be deployed onto target from well within the borders of Russian Federation.
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I don't see any way the Russian army could mount an effective conventional attack on Scandinavia. It's a bluff. Using nuclear weapons would make Russia a pariah for the foreseeable future and they cannot possibly win a nuclear exchange with NATO.
Even if he eventually occupies Ukraine he won't be able to hold it at any acceptable cost in blood and treasure. Surely he must know this by now.
I've read that Russian troops have been told that the war must be over, one way or another, for the May 9 WWII victory celebration. Perhaps Putin will claim Donetsk and Luhansk and declare victory.
wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 18:18 last edited byI've read that Russian troops have been told that the war must be over, one way or another, for the May 9 WWII victory celebration. Perhaps Putin will claim Donetsk and Luhansk and declare victory..
Hearing that as well. Quite plausible, although in the long run I still believe he wants total control over the whole of Ukraine.
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Sabre rattling. It means nothing and I call B. S. to the threat. Those are highly mobile systems that can be set in place at the drop of a hat and have a range that enables them to be deployed onto target from well within the borders of Russian Federation.
wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 19:30 last edited by Axtremus@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
Sabre rattling.
For domestic consumption, and/or to remind the world it still has a Sabre?
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@Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:
Sabre rattling.
For domestic consumption, and/or to remind the world it still has a Sabre?
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wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 20:38 last edited by
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wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 20:40 last edited by
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wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 21:17 last edited by
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wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 21:25 last edited by
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wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 22:30 last edited by Mik
H/t to Renauda
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wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 22:36 last edited by
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wrote on 14 Apr 2022, 22:42 last edited by
This is a BFD.
That ship was used to launch countless missile attacks from the Black Sea. There are two sister ships, but Turkey is denying entry to the Black Sea to all military vessels.
I would love to have been a fly on the wall when Putin heard this.