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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

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  • G Offline
    G Offline
    George K
    wrote on 27 Nov 2023, 12:13 last edited by
    #1965

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • G Offline
      G Offline
      George K
      wrote on 30 Nov 2023, 15:45 last edited by
      #1966

      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • M Away
        M Away
        Mik
        wrote on 30 Nov 2023, 17:19 last edited by
        #1967

        Looks warmish.

        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

        1 Reply Last reply
        • R Offline
          R Offline
          Renauda
          wrote on 30 Nov 2023, 17:32 last edited by
          #1968

          T. E. Lawrence smiled:

          https://www.kyivpost.com/post/24856

          Elbows up!

          G 1 Reply Last reply 30 Nov 2023, 17:35
          • R Renauda
            30 Nov 2023, 17:32

            T. E. Lawrence smiled:

            https://www.kyivpost.com/post/24856

            G Offline
            G Offline
            George K
            wrote on 30 Nov 2023, 17:35 last edited by
            #1969

            @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

            T. E. Lawrence smiled:

            LOL

            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • R Offline
              R Offline
              Renauda
              wrote on 30 Nov 2023, 18:02 last edited by
              #1970

              Speaking of Lawrence, here’s Lawrence Freedman’s most recent Situation Report on the war in Ukraine:

              https://samf.substack.com/p/what-should-ukraine-do-next?utm_medium=web

              Elbows up!

              1 Reply Last reply
              • M Away
                M Away
                Mik
                wrote on 30 Nov 2023, 19:33 last edited by Mik
                #1971

                Good article, if not cheery. I think the major point is decisive victory is unlikely for either nation, but Russia's economy is so much smaller than the West's. The question is Ukrainian manpower. Weapons are important but you have to preserve the people to operate them.

                “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                G R 2 Replies Last reply 30 Nov 2023, 19:40
                • M Mik
                  30 Nov 2023, 19:33

                  Good article, if not cheery. I think the major point is decisive victory is unlikely for either nation, but Russia's economy is so much smaller than the West's. The question is Ukrainian manpower. Weapons are important but you have to preserve the people to operate them.

                  G Offline
                  G Offline
                  George K
                  wrote on 30 Nov 2023, 19:40 last edited by
                  #1972

                  @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

                  The question is Ukrainian manpower

                  Indeed. I've seen reports that Russia has sustained >300K casualties. Considering the size of their military, that's not crippling (except, perhaps, in public opinion).

                  Ukraine can't bear that kind of loss, and Russia will continue to throw troops into the grinder.

                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • M Mik
                    30 Nov 2023, 19:33

                    Good article, if not cheery. I think the major point is decisive victory is unlikely for either nation, but Russia's economy is so much smaller than the West's. The question is Ukrainian manpower. Weapons are important but you have to preserve the people to operate them.

                    R Offline
                    R Offline
                    Renauda
                    wrote on 30 Nov 2023, 20:23 last edited by
                    #1973

                    @Mik

                    This morning in a Zoom scrum between friends and former colleagues, we parsed through Freedman’s report. One of our number with considerably more experience in these matters than I, expressed his concern that he senses a growing risk of fraying in team Kyiv as to what and how to adjust strategy while at the same time maintaining the necessary messaging to manage expectations on multiple fronts and levels.

                    I suspect his concern is well founded.

                    Elbows up!

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • M Away
                      M Away
                      Mik
                      wrote on 30 Nov 2023, 21:20 last edited by
                      #1974

                      It's a lot to maintain that fighting spirit as the Russian onslaught, incompetent though it may be, continues to wear them down.

                      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • M Away
                        M Away
                        Mik
                        wrote on 30 Nov 2023, 21:22 last edited by
                        #1975

                        Speaking of Russian competence...

                        https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-troops-are-being-blown-up-by-their-own-minefields-because-their-leaders-won-t-say-where-they-are-ukraine-says/ar-AA1kMvEt?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d3301936c16f4c89be763761bf1b15fa&ei=115

                        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • G Offline
                          G Offline
                          George K
                          wrote on 30 Nov 2023, 21:24 last edited by
                          #1976

                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • R Offline
                            R Offline
                            Renauda
                            wrote on 1 Dec 2023, 17:17 last edited by
                            #1977

                            Yesterday T. E. Lawrence just smiled, today it’s sardonic laughter:

                            https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67593041

                            Elbows up!

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • M Away
                              M Away
                              Mik
                              wrote on 1 Dec 2023, 17:21 last edited by
                              #1978

                              Smart. Ukraine cannot kill enough Russians to stop the war, but an ill-equipped army can't accomplish much of anything except get itself killed.

                              “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • R Offline
                                R Offline
                                Renauda
                                wrote on 1 Dec 2023, 21:34 last edited by Renauda 12 Jan 2023, 21:35
                                #1979

                                More meat for the grinder….

                                https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67592803

                                And somehow NATO is to blame.

                                Elbows up!

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • G Offline
                                  G Offline
                                  George K
                                  wrote on 1 Dec 2023, 23:14 last edited by
                                  #1980

                                  https://www.statista.com/statistics/1334454/russian-armed-forces-personnel/

                                  Screenshot 2023-12-01 at 5.13.37 PM.png

                                  Even if the Ukrainian claim of 300K casualties is inflated by a factor of two, it's still a big hit.

                                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • W Offline
                                    W Offline
                                    Wim
                                    wrote on 2 Dec 2023, 22:15 last edited by
                                    #1981

                                    A diplomatic failure for Russia:

                                    https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/12/02/ukraine-outmaneuvers-russia-at-osce-in-chemical-weapons-maritime-agencies/

                                    R 1 Reply Last reply 3 Dec 2023, 00:13
                                    • M Away
                                      M Away
                                      Mik
                                      wrote on 2 Dec 2023, 22:35 last edited by
                                      #1982

                                      It would appear Russia does not fear isolation.

                                      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • W Wim
                                        2 Dec 2023, 22:15

                                        A diplomatic failure for Russia:

                                        https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/12/02/ukraine-outmaneuvers-russia-at-osce-in-chemical-weapons-maritime-agencies/

                                        R Offline
                                        R Offline
                                        Renauda
                                        wrote on 3 Dec 2023, 00:13 last edited by
                                        #1983

                                        @Wim
                                        The losses are significant from the Kremlin’s point of view in that it surely feels it has a right to entitlement to have a voting representative on both agencies’ governing bodies.

                                        Big diplomatic win for Ukraine, EU and NATO.

                                        Elbows up!

                                        W 1 Reply Last reply 3 Dec 2023, 11:01
                                        • R Renauda
                                          3 Dec 2023, 00:13

                                          @Wim
                                          The losses are significant from the Kremlin’s point of view in that it surely feels it has a right to entitlement to have a voting representative on both agencies’ governing bodies.

                                          Big diplomatic win for Ukraine, EU and NATO.

                                          W Offline
                                          W Offline
                                          Wim
                                          wrote on 3 Dec 2023, 11:01 last edited by
                                          #1984

                                          @Renauda I suppose Lavrov felt pretty uneasy. Who else is to be blamed for this debacle?

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                                          30 Nov 2023, 21:20


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