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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
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  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

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  • R Renauda
    13 Mar 2023, 14:40

    Is Putin losing control of the message? Interesting note from two days ago:

    Russian Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Maria Zakharova confirmed that there is infighting in
    the Kremlin inner circle, that the Kremlin has ceded centralized control over the Russian information space, and that Russian President Vladimir Putin apparently cannot readily fix it. Kremlin journalists, academics, and Novorossiya supporters held a forum on the “practical and technological aspects of information and cognitive warfare in modern realities” in Moscow on March 11.[2] During a panel discussion Zakharova stated that the Kremlin cannot replicate the Stalinist approach of establishing a modern equivalent to the Soviet Information Bureau to centrally control Russia’s internal information space due to fighting among unspecified Kremlin “elites.”[3]

    Zakharova’s statement is noteworthy and supports several of ISW’s longstanding assessments about deteriorating Kremlin regime and information space control dynamics. The statement supports several assessments: that there is Kremlin infighting between key members of Putin’s inner circle; that Putin has largely ceded the Russian information space over time to a variety of quasi-independent actors; and that Putin is apparently unable to take decisive action to regain control over the Russian information space.[4] It is unclear why Zakharova — a seasoned senior spokesperson — would have openly acknowledged these problems in a public setting. Zakharova may have directly discussed these problems for the first time to temper Russian nationalist milbloggers’ expectations regarding the current capabilities of the Kremlin to cohere around a unified narrative — or possibly even a unified policy..

    Source: https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-11-2023

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    George K
    wrote on 13 Mar 2023, 14:51 last edited by
    #1485

    @Renauda in the early stages of the war, it seems like the Russian populace bought Putin's rhetoric and flag-waving. "De-Nazification!" "Re-uniting Russia!" all sounded pretty good.

    And now, 13 months later, with tens of thousands of body bags flowing into Russia it might be hitting home that, well, this was a bad idea. Probably everyone knows someone who has lost someone in the war, or who has sustained a life-crippling injury.

    You can't keep that shit up forever with rhetoric.

    You have to show gains and "winning." The current battle in Bakhmut is, from what I gather, not strategically important, but from a morale standpoint, it's a must-win for Russia.

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    R 1 Reply Last reply 13 Mar 2023, 16:11
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      Mik
      wrote on 13 Mar 2023, 14:55 last edited by
      #1486

      It's not nearly so important to justify the lives lost.

      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

      1 Reply Last reply
      • G George K
        13 Mar 2023, 14:51

        @Renauda in the early stages of the war, it seems like the Russian populace bought Putin's rhetoric and flag-waving. "De-Nazification!" "Re-uniting Russia!" all sounded pretty good.

        And now, 13 months later, with tens of thousands of body bags flowing into Russia it might be hitting home that, well, this was a bad idea. Probably everyone knows someone who has lost someone in the war, or who has sustained a life-crippling injury.

        You can't keep that shit up forever with rhetoric.

        You have to show gains and "winning." The current battle in Bakhmut is, from what I gather, not strategically important, but from a morale standpoint, it's a must-win for Russia.

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        Renauda
        wrote on 13 Mar 2023, 16:11 last edited by
        #1487

        @George-K

        Regardless, Putin still has widespread domestic support in his war effort. He has been successful in conflating this war with the war against Hitler in WWII. From what I can tell, problems in the field are seen as the politicians and military leadership lacking in Stalinist resolve to annihilate the enemy.

        There needs to be a lot more losses and body bags brought for that attitude to change.

        Elbows up!

        1 Reply Last reply
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          George K
          wrote on 15 Mar 2023, 00:06 last edited by
          #1488

          The most horrible thing you'll read today.

          Ukraine has accused two Russian soldiers of sexually assaulting a four-year-old girl and gang raping her mother at gunpoint in front of her father, as part of widespread allegations of abuse during the more than one-year-long invasion.

          According to Ukrainian prosecution files seen by Reuters, the incidents were among a spree of sex crimes Russian soldiers of the 15th Separate Motorized Rifle Brigade committed in four homes of Brovary district near the capital Kyiv in March 2022.

          Russia's Defence Ministry did not respond to a request for comment. Phone numbers listed for the brigade were out of order. Two officials at the Samara Garrison, of which the brigade is a part, said they were unable to give contacts for the unit when contacted by Reuters, with one saying they were classified.

          Most of the alleged atrocities took place on March 13, when soldiers "in a state of alcoholic intoxication, broke into the yard of the house where a young family lived," the prosecutors alleged.

          The father was beaten with a metal pot then forced to kneel while his wife was gang raped. One of the soldiers told the four-year-old girl he "will make her a woman" before she was abused, the documents said.

          The family survived, though prosecutors said they are investigating additional crimes in the area including murders during the same period.

          President Vladimir Putin's government, which says it is fighting Western-backed "neo-Nazis" in Ukraine, has repeatedly denied allegations of atrocities. It has also denied that its military commanders are aware of sexual violence by soldiers.

          The soldiers were both snipers, aged 32 and 28, the files said, adding that the former had died while the younger, named as Yevgeniy Chernoknizhniy, returned to Russia.

          When Reuters asked for the identities of both soldiers, prosecutors provided only the name of the younger man. When Reuters called a number in online databases for him, a person saying he was Chernoknizhniy’s brother said he was deceased.

          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • M Away
            M Away
            Mik
            wrote on 15 Mar 2023, 00:12 last edited by
            #1489

            Add another to the list of those I’d love to see hanged.

            “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

            1 Reply Last reply
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              Renauda
              wrote on 15 Mar 2023, 00:19 last edited by
              #1490

              A loathsome encore of the Red Army’s performance and march to Berlin in 44 and 45.

              Elbows up!

              1 Reply Last reply
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                Mik
                wrote on 15 Mar 2023, 10:50 last edited by
                #1491

                It's all our fault, y'know.

                https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-tells-aircraft-factory-workers-in-buryatia-how-he-was-tricked/ar-AA18CsRA?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=eb8b7a6960fe46d5b1c1eb3fa1af59eb&ei=24

                “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                1 Reply Last reply
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                  Renauda
                  wrote on 15 Mar 2023, 14:01 last edited by Renauda
                  #1492

                  @Mik

                  Indeed, Putin and his machine love to play the victim in this war. Here is a presentation on the subject that was published today:

                  https://open.substack.com/pub/snyder/p/playing-the-victim?r=17wfy3&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

                  Elbows up!

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • M Away
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                    Mik
                    wrote on 15 Mar 2023, 21:47 last edited by
                    #1493

                    Interesting viewpoint, and true, I think. We need a plan for if things escalate.

                    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-is-preparing-for-a-nuclear-showdown-we-must-be-ready/ar-AA18EkYu?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=1539549b3ce245e8f032596c51b32527&ei=31

                    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                    A R 2 Replies Last reply 15 Mar 2023, 21:54
                    • M Mik
                      15 Mar 2023, 21:47

                      Interesting viewpoint, and true, I think. We need a plan for if things escalate.

                      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-is-preparing-for-a-nuclear-showdown-we-must-be-ready/ar-AA18EkYu?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=1539549b3ce245e8f032596c51b32527&ei=31

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                      Aqua Letifer
                      wrote on 15 Mar 2023, 21:54 last edited by
                      #1494

                      @Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:

                      Interesting viewpoint, and true, I think. We need a plan for if things escalate.

                      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-is-preparing-for-a-nuclear-showdown-we-must-be-ready/ar-AA18EkYu?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=1539549b3ce245e8f032596c51b32527&ei=31

                      I can't possibly see how this doesn't happen.

                      Please love yourself.

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                        Copper
                        wrote on 15 Mar 2023, 21:55 last edited by
                        #1495

                        If you want peace

                        prepare for war

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • M Mik
                          15 Mar 2023, 21:47

                          Interesting viewpoint, and true, I think. We need a plan for if things escalate.

                          https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-is-preparing-for-a-nuclear-showdown-we-must-be-ready/ar-AA18EkYu?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=1539549b3ce245e8f032596c51b32527&ei=31

                          R Offline
                          R Offline
                          Renauda
                          wrote on 15 Mar 2023, 22:28 last edited by
                          #1496

                          @Mik

                          Putin is far more rational and calculating than many of his opponents give him credit for. He has a nose for weakness, including for his own fragility, but it is not infallible. He is fond of the good life. As Garry Kasparov pointed out, ‘Putin wants to rule like Stalin but live like Abramovich’.

                          Nails it.

                          Elbows up!

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                            Jolly
                            wrote on 16 Mar 2023, 12:27 last edited by
                            #1497

                            Speaking of nailing it...

                            https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11866745/Russias-Wagner-mercenary-group-puts-ad-PORNHUB-new-recruits.html

                            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                            M 1 Reply Last reply 16 Mar 2023, 12:39
                            • J Jolly
                              16 Mar 2023, 12:27

                              Speaking of nailing it...

                              https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11866745/Russias-Wagner-mercenary-group-puts-ad-PORNHUB-new-recruits.html

                              M Away
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                              Mik
                              wrote on 16 Mar 2023, 12:39 last edited by
                              #1498

                              @Jolly

                              Maybe it should be named the Wanker group.

                              “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                                Jolly
                                wrote on 16 Mar 2023, 13:07 last edited by
                                #1499

                                The French Foreign Legion used to be famous for their comfort girls. Maybe Wagner will adopt a similar policy...

                                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                R 1 Reply Last reply 16 Mar 2023, 13:29
                                • J Jolly
                                  16 Mar 2023, 13:07

                                  The French Foreign Legion used to be famous for their comfort girls. Maybe Wagner will adopt a similar policy...

                                  R Offline
                                  R Offline
                                  Renauda
                                  wrote on 16 Mar 2023, 13:29 last edited by
                                  #1500

                                  @Jolly

                                  They really don’t need comfort girls. WG
                                  already has a policy encouraging its brigands to rape and pillage with impunity.

                                  Elbows up!

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • M Away
                                    M Away
                                    Mik
                                    wrote on 16 Mar 2023, 15:27 last edited by Mik
                                    #1501

                                    A more detailed piece on the Russian claim that the west is to blame. A grain of salt, as it is written by Russian state media. An interesting view.

                                    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/unrest-around-russian-borders-shows-when-empires-crumble-they-become-murderous/ar-AA18HHXD?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=7536fce55e1b4b2fa423121c1e845622&ei=50

                                    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                    R 1 Reply Last reply 16 Mar 2023, 16:05
                                    • M Mik
                                      16 Mar 2023, 15:27

                                      A more detailed piece on the Russian claim that the west is to blame. A grain of salt, as it is written by Russian state media. An interesting view.

                                      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/unrest-around-russian-borders-shows-when-empires-crumble-they-become-murderous/ar-AA18HHXD?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=7536fce55e1b4b2fa423121c1e845622&ei=50

                                      R Offline
                                      R Offline
                                      Renauda
                                      wrote on 16 Mar 2023, 16:05 last edited by Renauda
                                      #1502

                                      @Mik

                                      Interesting yet perverted. His argument and logic have more holes than a brick of Swiss cheese.

                                      Elbows up!

                                      M 1 Reply Last reply 16 Mar 2023, 16:38
                                      • R Offline
                                        R Offline
                                        Renauda
                                        wrote on 16 Mar 2023, 16:17 last edited by Renauda
                                        #1503

                                        Poland to send fighter jets to Ukraine. Hopefully this will encourage other former WP members to release their Soviet era inventories to Ukraine. Better late than never.

                                        https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64975770

                                        Elbows up!

                                        M 1 Reply Last reply 16 Mar 2023, 16:39
                                        • R Renauda
                                          16 Mar 2023, 16:05

                                          @Mik

                                          Interesting yet perverted. His argument and logic have more holes than a brick of Swiss cheese.

                                          M Away
                                          M Away
                                          Mik
                                          wrote on 16 Mar 2023, 16:38 last edited by
                                          #1504

                                          @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                          @Mik

                                          Interesting yet perverted. His argument and logic have holes than a brick of Swiss cheese.

                                          Yeah, blaming colonialism is SO 20th century. 😁

                                          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

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