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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
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  3. The Ukraine war thread

The Ukraine war thread

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  • G George K
    13 Feb 2023, 15:05

    @Renauda do Russians care about "cost" if victory is assured promised?

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    Renauda
    wrote on 13 Feb 2023, 15:09 last edited by Renauda
    #1385

    @George-K

    Let’s find out.

    Edit: I guess I ought to have included the link:

    https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/opinion-researcher-lev-gudkov-russians-have-little-compassion-for-the-ukrainians-a-066c08c6-60f4-48e1-853a-d2b3d67bd6b8

    Elbows up!

    1 Reply Last reply
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      Renauda
      wrote on 14 Feb 2023, 14:38 last edited by
      #1386

      So the story goes……

      https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/02/13/how-russias-fsb-embraced-religion-in-the-face-of-a-baffling-war-a80211

      Elbows up!

      1 Reply Last reply
      • G Offline
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        George K
        wrote on 15 Feb 2023, 23:20 last edited by
        #1387

        If true...wow.

        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • M Away
          M Away
          Mik
          wrote on 15 Feb 2023, 23:24 last edited by
          #1388

          Weapons are one thing. Ukraine needs to be very stingy with its troops. Russia has a far greater supply, although I doubt they can equip them properly for long.

          The west needs to keep it up as long as it takes.

          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

          1 Reply Last reply
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            Renauda
            wrote on 15 Feb 2023, 23:48 last edited by Renauda
            #1389

            From what I have been reading and hearing out there as of late is the Russians are moving large numbers of strike aircraft and ground support helicopters closer to the Ukrainian border. I think we can expect to see the Russians attempting much more integrated offensive in the coming days or weeks.

            Regardless, I have my doubts whether the Russian command structure can accommodate an integrated and combined forces strike without turning into a train wreck.

            One thing for certain, it will get right nasty again.

            Elbows up!

            1 Reply Last reply
            • M Away
              M Away
              Mik
              wrote on 16 Feb 2023, 00:45 last edited by
              #1390

              Operational competence does seem hard to believe, given recent performance.

              “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

              1 Reply Last reply
              • M Away
                M Away
                Mik
                wrote on 17 Feb 2023, 19:17 last edited by
                #1391

                Another one bites the dust. Dropping like flies.

                https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-s-top-defence-official-dies-after-160ft-balcony-fall-in-latest-mystery-death/ar-AA17zPS7?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=20f2ed0051b34f5ca2dccfc96206e34d

                “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                R 1 Reply Last reply 17 Feb 2023, 19:43
                • M Mik
                  17 Feb 2023, 19:17

                  Another one bites the dust. Dropping like flies.

                  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-s-top-defence-official-dies-after-160ft-balcony-fall-in-latest-mystery-death/ar-AA17zPS7?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=20f2ed0051b34f5ca2dccfc96206e34d

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                  Renauda
                  wrote on 17 Feb 2023, 19:43 last edited by
                  #1392

                  @Mik

                  George already got that one in his Life Insurance thread. Check it out.

                  Elbows up!

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • M Away
                    M Away
                    Mik
                    wrote on 17 Feb 2023, 21:10 last edited by
                    #1393

                    I was trying to remember what that thread was. Figured he had, but a little redundancy never hurt anyone.

                    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                      Renauda
                      wrote on 18 Feb 2023, 19:14 last edited by
                      #1394

                      Putin’s version of residential schools for Ukrainian children:

                      https://www.rferl.org/amp/ukraine-russia-children-reeducation/32272143.html

                      Elbows up!

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • G Offline
                        G Offline
                        George K
                        wrote on 20 Feb 2023, 00:07 last edited by
                        #1395

                        Michael Korfman on the Russian winter offensive. Long thread.

                        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                          G Offline
                          George K
                          wrote on 20 Feb 2023, 01:11 last edited by
                          #1396

                          Apparently SecState Blinken's comments about the possibility of China supplying lethal aid to Russia in the Ukraine war led to some displeasure on the part of the Chinese.

                          "It would be a 'red line' he said."

                          Devil's advocate here, how is China supplying lethal aid to Russia fundamentally different from what the US and other NATO nations are doing?

                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                          R 1 Reply Last reply 20 Feb 2023, 01:28
                          • G George K
                            20 Feb 2023, 01:11

                            Apparently SecState Blinken's comments about the possibility of China supplying lethal aid to Russia in the Ukraine war led to some displeasure on the part of the Chinese.

                            "It would be a 'red line' he said."

                            Devil's advocate here, how is China supplying lethal aid to Russia fundamentally different from what the US and other NATO nations are doing?

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                            Renauda
                            wrote on 20 Feb 2023, 01:28 last edited by Renauda
                            #1397

                            @George-K

                            Good question. For us in the decadent West, Russia is the aggressor and must be stopped in Ukraine.

                            China, on the other hand, while fully supporting Ukrainian sovereignty, its right to self determination and the inviolability of its borders, cannot help but see that its own Marxist-Leninist ideology demands that it support Russia, the true victim of US imperialist ambitions and birthplace of the first proletarian state.

                            That and the fact that it’s a great opportunity to sell arms and munitions and further mortgage Russia under its benign, peace loving proletarian and progressive embrace.

                            Hope that helps.

                            Elbows up!

                            G J 2 Replies Last reply 20 Feb 2023, 01:30
                            • R Renauda
                              20 Feb 2023, 01:28

                              @George-K

                              Good question. For us in the decadent West, Russia is the aggressor and must be stopped in Ukraine.

                              China, on the other hand, while fully supporting Ukrainian sovereignty, its right to self determination and the inviolability of its borders, cannot help but see that its own Marxist-Leninist ideology demands that it support Russia, the true victim of US imperialist ambitions and birthplace of the first proletarian state.

                              That and the fact that it’s a great opportunity to sell arms and munitions and further mortgage Russia under its benign, peace loving proletarian and progressive embrace.

                              Hope that helps.

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                              G Offline
                              George K
                              wrote on 20 Feb 2023, 01:30 last edited by
                              #1398

                              @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                              great opportunity to sell arms and munitions and further mortgage Russia

                              I think someone (was it you, Renauda?) who commented that the Chinese look at this as a way of asserting dominance over Russia - not only politically, but also financially.

                              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                              R 1 Reply Last reply 20 Feb 2023, 01:33
                              • G George K
                                20 Feb 2023, 01:30

                                @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                great opportunity to sell arms and munitions and further mortgage Russia

                                I think someone (was it you, Renauda?) who commented that the Chinese look at this as a way of asserting dominance over Russia - not only politically, but also financially.

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                                R Offline
                                Renauda
                                wrote on 20 Feb 2023, 01:33 last edited by
                                #1399

                                @George-K

                                Yes it was me. Xi already owns Putin.

                                Elbows up!

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • G Offline
                                  G Offline
                                  George K
                                  wrote on 20 Feb 2023, 01:34 last edited by
                                  #1400

                                  @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                  The politics of this are, for lack of a better word, fascinating. The politics go far, far beyond the simple act of one country invading another. So many players, so many implications.

                                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                  R 1 Reply Last reply 20 Feb 2023, 01:37
                                  • G George K
                                    20 Feb 2023, 01:34

                                    @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                    The politics of this are, for lack of a better word, fascinating. The politics go far, far beyond the simple act of one country invading another. So many players, so many implications.

                                    R Offline
                                    R Offline
                                    Renauda
                                    wrote on 20 Feb 2023, 01:37 last edited by
                                    #1401

                                    @George-K said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                    @Renauda said in The Ukraine war thread:

                                    The politics of this are, for lack of a better word, fascinating. The politics go far, far beyond the simple act of one country invading another. So many players, so many implications.

                                    Indeed. A good reason to take the analyses of TV and podcast talking heads worth a grain of salt.

                                    Elbows up!

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • M Away
                                      M Away
                                      Mik
                                      wrote on 20 Feb 2023, 02:54 last edited by
                                      #1402

                                      The implications are far ranging. There has never, to my knowledge, been a war that was so nearly universally condemned globally and the victim so thoroughly supported economically and militarily. It’s a blueprint for increased stability IF Ukraine is victorious, and a sure harbinger of further bloodshed if not.

                                      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                                      R 1 Reply Last reply 20 Feb 2023, 05:22
                                      • M Mik
                                        20 Feb 2023, 02:54

                                        The implications are far ranging. There has never, to my knowledge, been a war that was so nearly universally condemned globally and the victim so thoroughly supported economically and militarily. It’s a blueprint for increased stability IF Ukraine is victorious, and a sure harbinger of further bloodshed if not.

                                        R Offline
                                        R Offline
                                        Renauda
                                        wrote on 20 Feb 2023, 05:22 last edited by Renauda
                                        #1403

                                        @Mik

                                        I think you will find that the between 1941 to 1945 US Lend-Lease aid transfers to the USSR in war materiel, industrial equipment, technology transfer and intellectual property would amount to over $1 trillion in today’s currency. Moreover, I do not think that number includes the humanitarian aid such as food, clothing and medical supplies that were also sent to Moscow. In the end everything was given with no strings attached unlike the repayable loans under Lend Lease made to Britain. The USSR’s debts under Lend Lease were written off in 1951. Britain on the hand, paid its wartime debts in full, with interest, until 2006.

                                        If you get the inclination, I recommend you have a look at Sean McKeen’s Stalin’s War that came out in 2021. A real eye opener on how Lend Lease was really allocated and the extent to which Stalin was every bit an aggressive initiator of the war in Europe as was Hitler.

                                        Today Ukraine is receiving nothing near what Stalin received at the expense of other fighting allies like Britain and nationalist China during WWII.

                                        .

                                        Elbows up!

                                        A M 2 Replies Last reply 20 Feb 2023, 11:37
                                        • R Renauda
                                          20 Feb 2023, 05:22

                                          @Mik

                                          I think you will find that the between 1941 to 1945 US Lend-Lease aid transfers to the USSR in war materiel, industrial equipment, technology transfer and intellectual property would amount to over $1 trillion in today’s currency. Moreover, I do not think that number includes the humanitarian aid such as food, clothing and medical supplies that were also sent to Moscow. In the end everything was given with no strings attached unlike the repayable loans under Lend Lease made to Britain. The USSR’s debts under Lend Lease were written off in 1951. Britain on the hand, paid its wartime debts in full, with interest, until 2006.

                                          If you get the inclination, I recommend you have a look at Sean McKeen’s Stalin’s War that came out in 2021. A real eye opener on how Lend Lease was really allocated and the extent to which Stalin was every bit an aggressive initiator of the war in Europe as was Hitler.

                                          Today Ukraine is receiving nothing near what Stalin received at the expense of other fighting allies like Britain and nationalist China during WWII.

                                          .

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                                          A Offline
                                          AndyD
                                          wrote on 20 Feb 2023, 11:37 last edited by
                                          #1404

                                          Wow, Biden is there

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