Biden to nominate Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson to Supreme Court
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@Catseye3 Well, I don't think that natural rights requires a Creator, though if the human beings have an actual telos, which includes true love relationships, natural and supernatural perfection, happiness and joy and beatitude, human flourishing for the person and the society, then that certain gives it your oomph.
The issue here of course is that we all want these things for ourselves, if not necessarily for others -- nobody doesn't want what natural law (and to a much higher degree Christian moral teaching and Christian anthropology) tell us is the order of the human person in relationship. Yet, apart from accepting natural law and the worldview as the western Christian has worked it out, its really difficult to uphold that intellectually.
I think in general people do have some sense of their responsibility to exercise their soul stuff -- I think the vast majority of people mature into responsible and integrated human beings, and somehow find ways of fulfilling their innate need for happiness in relationships, even if they don't do it well or they don't ever really intentionally decide, "hey, my life is miserable, and I'm a jerk, and a good deal of my unhappiness is because I'm a jerk, or other people are jerks to me, and so maybe we should find a path of life where we try to love, and serve, and get rid of our selfish patterns, and submit our egos to a higher vision for life".
This is the sort of thing Augustine said: "Our hearts are restless until they rest in thee", or Francis Thompson's Hound of Heaven gives "‘Lo! naught contents thee, who content’st not Me.’"
I don't see how rights cohere apart from some higher vision of the person, which even the ancient Greeks and Romans got to without a direct appeal to a creator. But of course I write as a Catholic, and that's part of the picture for why it alone makes sense for me.
As for your travails, about which I really don't know, I can only offer you my love and solidarity and prayers and encouragement. Suffering is brutal, and meaningless, if it's not redemptive. I hope you continue to heal and are restored fully. <insert hug here>
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@Catseye3 said in Biden to nominate Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson to Supreme Court:
@Horace and Jon said in Biden to nominate Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson to Supreme Court:
No, I’ll just put the word ‘should’ in front of ‘have rights’ to acknowledge the actual situation humans have always faced.
By which you will always mean, "should have the ability to appeal to an authority to enforce those rights". Thus confusing the conversation, for those who might want to discuss the sorts of rights that can exist without an ability to enforce them.
Man, I love these slugfests Jon and Horace get into.
When they put their heavy thinking hats on, I feel like Bozo the Clown looking on. Not that that shuts me up any, but still.
Never underestimate The Thumper.
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@Ivorythumper said in Biden to nominate Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson to Supreme Court:
IT, any response I give to your elegant and graceful essay above will be pretty much too boring to bother with, my intellect, if you can even call it that, being a mile wide and an inch deep, but I didn't want to leave your thoughtful comment unaddressed, FWIW.
. . . though if the human beings have an actual telos, . . . then that certain gives it your oomph.
The issue here of course is that we all want these things for ourselves, if not necessarily for others -- nobody doesn't want what natural law . . . [tells] us is the order of the human person in relationship.
Yet, apart from accepting natural law and the worldview as the western Christian has worked it out, its really difficult to uphold that intellectually.>That's the thing. There is maybe no need to uphold it intellectually. As endlessly
exhaustingfascinating as it is to ponder the nature of Truth, Beauty and the Universe, natural law makes some big truths easy to accept without a lot of struggle. Acceptance of natural law just lays it all out, easy peasy. (Which thank god; the lesser challenges are difficult enough.)But can western Christianity take all the credit? Has the telos (1) not preceded Christianity? Would Neanderthal have survived and evolved without a natural inclination toward caring for his children?
(1) To steal your term, about which I am ignorant, but intrigued. It seems like a dandy theory to enfold oneself in.
I think the vast majority of people mature into responsible and integrated human beings, <
You do???
Thank you for your very kind comments on my trevail. As it happens, my all-caps TERRIBLE SUFFERING was referring to a sick day preceding that which was one for the books, but which vanished without lingering consequences and left me feeling as fine as a frog's hair -- or as fine as I generally am able to get. (Conclusion of the TNCR expert panel: kidney stones; major hurt.) So as awful as it was, it maybe wasn't as bad as the impression I gave with my drama. But your across-the-miles hugs were lovely.
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It’s always something.
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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