Well, the cruise missiles are flying..

[Axtremus]

@Mik "Why Ukraine matters" ... putting together a list of "whys" is easy. Quantifying "how much" is what determines actions or lack thereof.

How much does Ukraine matter?

Answer that in terms of American treasures determines what monetary and material aid the USA send Ukraine.

Answer that in terms of American lives determines whether we send ground troops.

Will Congress pass a resolution to send material aid to Ukraine anytime soon? Maybe. How much will the resolution authorize? Don't know.

Will Congress declare war, will the Commander in Chief send group troops? So far it looks like the answers to both are most likely "no." Cannot remember the exact figure now, but recently I cited a popular opinion poll that says a large majority of Americans do not support sending American ground troops to Ukraine.

[George K]

Chernobyl Captured

The Chernobyl nuclear power plant has been captured by Russian forces, an adviser to the Ukrainian presidential office, Mykhailo Podolyak, said on Thursday.

"It is impossible to say the Chernobyl nuclear power plant is safe after a totally pointless attack by the Russians," he said.

"This is one of the most serious threats in Europe today," Podolyak said.

Russian troops took over the power plant while Ukrainian forces battled them on three sides on Thursday after Moscow mounted an assault by land, sea and air in the biggest attack on a European state since World War Two.

Some Russian military massed in the Chernobyl "exclusion zone" before crossing into Ukraine early on Thursday, a Russian security source said.

Russia wants to control the Chernobyl nuclear reactor to signal NATO not to interfere militarily, the same source said.

The Chernobyl disaster in then-Soviet Ukraine sent clouds of nuclear material across much of Europe in 1986 after a botched safety test in the fourth reactor of the atomic plant.

[Jolly]

Nothing concentrates a man's mind, quite like an imminent hanging.

Wonder what the Europeans are thinking today?

[Horace]

Is there a point to Ukraine resisting other than a desire to die fighting?

[Klaus]

What do they want with Chernobyl???

[Copper]

@Horace said in Well, the cruise missiles are flying..:

Is there a point to Ukraine resisting other than a desire to die fighting?

Thoughts from nyt

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/22/world/europe/chernobyl-ukraine-invasion-russia.html

[Klaus]

@Horace said in Well, the cruise missiles are flying..:

Is there a point to Ukraine resisting other than a desire to die fighting?

Increase the prize of conquering and hope that this makes the endeavour less attractive. It might even work.

[Horace]

@Klaus said in Well, the cruise missiles are flying..:

@Horace said in Well, the cruise missiles are flying..:

Is there a point to Ukraine resisting other than a desire to die fighting?

Increase the prize of conquering and hope that this makes the endeavour less attractive. It might even work.

Considering how invested Putin is in the manly man image, I don't see how that could work.

[Mik]

It’s a terrible thought, but I think back to the videos of Baghdad in 2003. Did we have greater justification to invade a sovereign nation?

[Jolly]

@Mik said in Well, the cruise missiles are flying..:

It’s a terrible thought, but I think back to the videos of Baghdad in 2003. Did we have greater justification to invade a sovereign nation?

More than what Putin used for Ukraine....

[Mik]

In what way?

[Jolly]

1. We thought that faction of Al queda were in Iraq and being helped by the Iraqi government.
2. Hussein had threatened the life of 41. Dumb move.
3. We knew Hussein had WMD in the form of nerve gas and chemical artillery shells. I think a good bit wound up in Syria.
4. Oil. Further wars in that section of the world would certainly destabilize energy prices.

[LuFins Dad]

I’ll also add that Saddam was still sponsoring terrorism, was repeatedly attacking the peacekeepers, was barring access to UN Inspectors, and was starving his people while living in obscene wealth.

[Mik]

All that seems right to us. Not sure it does to the rest of the world.

[George K]

[LuFins Dad]

@Mik said in Well, the cruise missiles are flying..:

All that seems right to us. Not sure it does to the rest of the world.

Well, since Iraq is not our 51st state or even a territory and considering that we import less oil from Iraq than we do Ecuador, I think comparisons with an invasion meant to subsume a nation and their citizens doesn’t hold water. If other people feel differently, that’s okay. They are allowed to be idiots.

[kluurs]

[xenon]

I don’t understand why the last two administrations and the current one have been so hesitant to arm Ukraine.

I’m sure I’m missing something obvious. Was it the fear that the gear would eventually end up in Russian hands?

[LuFins Dad]

Are Poland and the Baltics constrained by EU to not take action? I’m a little surprised that they aren’t taking a more active position.

[George K]