Today's musical interlude

[Larry]

@doctor-phibes said in Today's musical interlude:

I like classical musical, but I'm a jazz snob

I wouldn't really have described that second piece as 'classical', more classical-influenced.

Does it really matter? We stick labels on things to try and help categorize them. Then the label becomes more important than the music......

I want to like it. But I can't because I simply cannot tolerate the elitism itsadherents tend to display. I absolutely despise pretentiousness, and that has climbed all over the genre like ugly on an ape.

And like you say, the label is more important to them than the music.

So.... fuck Chopin...... lol

[Larry]

@george-k said in Today's musical interlude:

@larry said in Today's musical interlude:

Classical music is what people who would drown if it rained on them listen to because other people who would drown if it rained on them told them it made them look sophisticated if they listen to it.

That's a pretty non-responsive answer.

Classical music began 200 years before the existence of the modern piano, and continues to be written to this very day.

That's true, but doesn't define it.

How about this?

"Classical Music is something @Larry hates?"

(among other things, of course)

I thought it was quite responsive, and to the point, myself....

[George K]

@larry said in Today's musical interlude:

I simply cannot tolerate the elitism itsadherents tend to display.

IOW, you can't distinguish the art from the person who either produces it or likes it, right?

Would you say the same thing, say, about "country" music (whatever that is these days)?

"I hate country music because the people who like it are a bunch of knuckle-dragging rednecks."

That's, basically, what you're saying, isn't it?

[Klaus]

@larry said in Today's musical interlude:

Klaus, to be honest, you are displaying the very snobbery that made me hate classical music to start with. What a narrow minded view of things you have... sheesh

My definition is more or less what you'd find in dictionaries. It's not my invention. Words are not very useful when they don't have meaning. I've given you what I think most people mean when they use the word.

So, let me ask you again. You listen to a piece of music. How do you decide whether it's "classical music"? You still haven't given an answer.

[Larry]

@george-k said in Today's musical interlude:

@larry said in Today's musical interlude:

I simply cannot tolerate the elitism itsadherents tend to display.

IOW, you can't distinguish the art from the person who either produces it or likes it, right?

Would you say the same thing, say, about "country" music (whatever that is these days)?

"I hate country music because the people who like it are a bunch of knuckle-dragging rednecks."

That's, basically, what you're saying, isn't it?

Not at all.

[George K]

@larry said in Today's musical interlude:

Not at all.

That's exactly what you said. You said your hatred of the music developed from the snobby, elitist attitudes of the people who tried to teach it to you or who enjoy it.

[Larry]

@george-k said in Today's musical interlude:

@larry said in Today's musical interlude:

Not at all.

That's exactly what you said. You said your hatred of the music developed from the snobby, elitist attitudes of the people who tried to teach it to you or who enjoy it.

I said I wanted to like classical music, but couldn't because of the snobbery that's associated with it. 8n other words, I COULD enjoy the music if it weren't for the snobbery of most (not all, George) of the people who are snobs. You know - the ones that routinely DO look down their noses at country music, pop music, etc. And constantly remind you that it is inferior "folk music" - you know... "redneck music"...

You're trying to accuse me of the very thing classical music snobs do all the time, George. I have AKWAYS made it clear that it's not the music I hate, but the attitude that goes along with it.

[Renauda]

@doctor-phibes said in Today's musical interlude:

I wouldn't really have described that second piece as 'classical', more classical-influenced.

Does it really matter? We stick labels on things to try and help categorize them. Then the label becomes more important than the music......

Just listen to the Beatles from Rubber Soul right up to the break up of the band. George Martin’s classical music training and influence is more than obvious.

Then there are other bands like Deep Purple,Yes and Emerson, Lake & Palmer just to name a few. Classical music formed the very foundation of their style of rock music. Deep Purple’s Jon Lord plays a descending keyboard break in Highway Star that is a variation of a passage from Bach Partita.

So it doesn’t matter - great musicianship is great musicianship regardless of style or genre or, whether or not you went to music school. People forget that Liszt was, for the most part, self taught in both piano technique and composition. Sure he took a couple of private lessons but he, unlike Chopin, never attended a Conservatory.

[Larry]

Just go back through this thread and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I made it clear that it wasn't the music but the snobbery that I didn't like. To prove my point, I posted a link to a modern classical piece that I like. Right out of the gate I was informed that it wasn't "ckassical", didn't even qualify as classical, and sounded like pop music using "classical orchestra instruments. Let me translate that for you:

"Your music is inferior folk music faking it with instruments YOUR music isn't supposed to use.

IE.... you like redneck music.

Next I'm informed that no modern music can be classical, which was quickly shown to be a silly claim.

Now I'm being ragged over shit I didn't even say, all because I dared to say anything about the fucking snobbery associated with what by and large consists of (as it related to piano) exercises designed to teach harpichordists how to adjust to sustain both from let off as well as a sustain pedal, à and church music.

[George K]

@larry said in Today's musical interlude:

I made it clear that it wasn't the music but the snobbery that I didn't like.

Well, there's this, in the very first sentence of your post.

As some of you know, I don't care much for "classical" music. There are numerous reasons for that. First, my college professors refused to allow me to play anything else,

And in the second part you said this:

Second, Nothing pisses me off more than to have some nose in the air snob tell me that the music I like is worthless crap, "folk music", and imply that I'm somehow beneath them in musical taste because I won't agree with their view and turn into a snob with them and nod when they make stupid statements like "the classical composers will still be popular centuries from now, and you 'folk music' is forgotten in a few months".

Finally, you say this:

Anyway..... that's why I don't like classical music. It's not the music itself, it's the stuffy snobbery that goes along with it.

Let me distill that for you.

"I hate the people that made me listen to it."

"The people who listen to it are elite snobs."

"Oh, the music's OK (I guess), but I still hate the BS associated with it.

Now, let's put the boot on the other foot.

"I hate country music because I was forced to listen to it."

"Country music is played by a bunch of redneck hicks who wear cowboy boots and get drunk while doing line-dancing."

"Oh, I don't really hate country music.I appreciate it. I just hate all the people and culture associated with it.

That's what you said, in a nutshell.

You're not going to find a bunch of people with more varied tastes in music than our bunch here. It's a matter of taste.

Phibles loves jazz, and bless him for that. He's introduced me to so much stuff I would have never have looked at.

Your introduction to the remarkable musicianship and skill of so many of today's artists is another example.

It's a matter of taste, and de gustibum...

But to try to justify your taste is a fool's errand. It's what you like, or not - and nothing more profound than that.

[Larry]

@renauda said in Today's musical interlude:

@doctor-phibes said in Today's musical interlude:

I wouldn't really have described that second piece as 'classical', more classical-influenced.

Does it really matter? We stick labels on things to try and help categorize them. Then the label becomes more important than the music......

Just listen to the Beatles from Rubber Soul right up to the break up of the band. George Martin’s classical music training and influence is more than obvious.

Then there are other bands like Deep Purple,Yes and Emerson, Lake & Palmer just to name a few. Jon Lord plays a descending keybiard break in Highway Star that is a variation of a passage from Bach Partita.

So it doesn’t matter - great musicianship is great musicianship regardless of style or genre or, whether or not you went to music school. People forget that Liszt was for the most, part self taught in both piano technique and composition. Sure he took a couple of private lessons but he, unlike Chopin, never attended a Conservatory.

Yes.

Liszt was a rock star of his day. If he had need born in this age he would have trashed hotel rooms. And beethoven screwed so many whores he went deaf from VD, and I think if he read this thread he would say "well, you finally found a way to get people to respond in a "musical interlude" thread...... hahahaha

[Larry]

@george-k said in Today's musical interlude:

@larry said in Today's musical interlude:

I made it clear that it wasn't the music but the snobbery that I didn't like.

Well, there's this, in the very first sentence of your post.

As some of you know, I don't care much for "classical" music. There are numerous reasons for that. First, my college professors refused to allow me to play anything else,

And in the second part you said this:

Second, Nothing pisses me off more than to have some nose in the air snob tell me that the music I like is worthless crap, "folk music", and imply that I'm somehow beneath them in musical taste because I won't agree with their view and turn into a snob with them and nod when they make stupid statements like "the classical composers will still be popular centuries from now, and you 'folk music' is forgotten in a few months".

Finally, you say this:

Anyway..... that's why I don't like classical music. It's not the music itself, it's the stuffy snobbery that goes along with it.

Let me distill that for you.

"I hate the people that made me listen to it."

"The people who listen to it are elite snobs."

"Oh, the music's OK (I guess), but I still hate the BS associated with it.

Now, let's put the boot on the other foot.

"I hate country music because I was forced to listen to it."

"Country music is played by a bunch of redneck hicks who wear cowboy boots and get drunk while doing line-dancing."

"Oh, I don't really hate country music.I appreciate it. I just hate all the people and culture associated with it.

That's what you said, in a nutshell.

You're not going to find a bunch of people with more varied tastes in music than our bunch here. It's a matter of taste.

Phibles loves jazz, and bless him for that. He's introduced me to so much stuff I would have never have looked at.

Your introduction to the remarkable musicianship and skill of so many of today's artists is another example.

It's a matter of taste, and de gustibum...

But to try to justify your taste is a fool's errand. It's what you like, or not - and nothing more profound than that.

George if someone forced you to listen to country music to the point you hated it, I'd agree with you 100%. But I would understand that the MUSIC didn't make you hate it, the people who forced you to listen to it did. And if they did that while looking down their noses at other people with different tastes, I'd be right there beside you calling them out for it. Again, it's not a matter of musical tastes, and I've made that clear repeatedly. But your analogy isn't working for me, because you've got people who call country music something played by a bunch of redneck hicks in cowboy boots forcing you to listen to country music.

Let me say it again - I don't hate the MUSIC - I hate the snobbery associated with it that tells me Gino Vanellis "canto" is not really classical music", but is trying to "fake it by using orchestra instruments" if you can't see my point I don't know what to tell you. But I'm NOT saying anything about classical music.

[Klaus]

@larry said in Today's musical interlude:

I made it clear that it wasn't the music but the snobbery that I didn't like. To prove my point, I posted a link to a modern classical piece that I like. Right out of the gate I was informed that it wasn't "ckassical", didn't even qualify as classical, and sounded like pop music using "classical orchestra instruments. Let me translate that for you:
"Your music is inferior folk music faking it with instruments YOUR music isn't supposed to use.

Why are you doing this? This is not at all what I said.

The only one who continually suggests that classical music is "superior", or that some people believe that to be the case, is you. You.

I never made any claim that style one of music is superior to any other style. That would be just silly. I merely maintained that there is such a thing as a musical style and offered my explanation why I think that piece isn't in the classical music style.

Your behaviour here suggests some kind of inferiority complex about the music you like. But there is no need to. There's nothing wrong with the music you like. It isn't inferior to any other style of music, including classical music. People who like other styles of music will not look down on you for the music you like, including most people who like classical music. There is no need to become aggressive whenever anyone talks about it. Just relax about it. Live and let live.

[Larry]

@klaus said in Today's musical interlude:

@larry said in Today's musical interlude:

I made it clear that it wasn't the music but the snobbery that I didn't like. To prove my point, I posted a link to a modern classical piece that I like. Right out of the gate I was informed that it wasn't "ckassical", didn't even qualify as classical, and sounded like pop music using "classical orchestra instruments. Let me translate that for you:
"Your music is inferior folk music faking it with instruments YOUR music isn't supposed to use.

Why are you doing this? This is not at all what I said.

The only one who continually suggests that classical music is "superior", or that some people believe that to be the case, is you. You.

I never made any claim that style one of music is superior to any other style. That would be just silly. I merely maintained that there is such a thing as a musical style and offered my explanation why I think that piece isn't in the classical music style.

Your behaviour here suggests some kind of inferiority complex about the music you like. But there is no need to. There's nothing wrong with the music you like. It isn't inferior to any other style of music, including classical music. People who like other styles of music will not look down on you for the music you like, including most people who like classical music. There is no need to become aggressive whenever anyone talks about it. Just relax about it. Live and let live.

Klaus, you don't have to SAY it, you make it quite clear. And I have no inferiority complex about anything, much less about my tastes in music. You're attempting to project.

[Klaus]

@larry said in Today's musical interlude:

Klaus, you don't have to SAY it, you make it quite clear.

I doubt you can point to anything I ever said that would support that.

It only exists in your mind. When somebody likes classical music, you automatically think that this person must be a snob who looks down on you.

[George K]

@klaus said in Today's musical interlude:

When somebody likes classical music, you automatically think that this person must be a snob who looks down on you.

You've distilled my argument.

When somebody likes country music, you automatically think it's someone who likes possum.

[Larry]

@klaus said in Today's musical interlude:

@larry said in Today's musical interlude:

Klaus, you don't have to SAY it, you make it quite clear.

I doubt you can point to anything I ever said that would support that.

It only exists in your mind. When somebody likes classical music, you automatically think that this person must be a snob who looks down on you.

I've never said anyone looks down on me. Whether you see this or not, I've been talking about groups in general, not specific individuals.

[Larry]

@george-k said in Today's musical interlude:

@klaus said in Today's musical interlude:

When somebody likes classical music, you automatically think that this person must be a snob who looks down on you.

You've distilled my argument.

When somebody likes country music, you automatically think it's someone who likes possum.

Give the man a star.

[Doctor Phibes]

Country and Western folk like possum.

Banjo players luuuurve possum.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.

[Larry]

No one does country and western music nowadays..