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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Spot the threat to free speech

Spot the threat to free speech

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  • J Online
    J Online
    jon-nyc
    wrote on 29 May 2020, 10:01 last edited by
    #68

    I agree this was really stupid for twitter to do but the law was designed to do just that.

    All this executive order will do is set in motion a bunch of litigation until congress rewrites the law, if they ever do.

    Only non-witches get due process.

    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
    K 2 Replies Last reply 29 May 2020, 10:12
    • J jon-nyc
      29 May 2020, 10:01

      I agree this was really stupid for twitter to do but the law was designed to do just that.

      All this executive order will do is set in motion a bunch of litigation until congress rewrites the law, if they ever do.

      K Offline
      K Offline
      Klaus
      wrote on 29 May 2020, 10:12 last edited by
      #69

      @jon-nyc said in Spot the threat to free speech:

      but the law was designed to do just that.

      To do what?

      1 Reply Last reply
      • J jon-nyc
        29 May 2020, 10:01

        I agree this was really stupid for twitter to do but the law was designed to do just that.

        All this executive order will do is set in motion a bunch of litigation until congress rewrites the law, if they ever do.

        K Offline
        K Offline
        Klaus
        wrote on 29 May 2020, 10:13 last edited by
        #70

        @jon-nyc said in Spot the threat to free speech:

        All this executive order will do is set in motion a bunch of litigation

        But litigation can be expensive and behavior-changing, no?

        (I have no idea what that EO actually entails in the real world)

        1 Reply Last reply
        • J Online
          J Online
          jon-nyc
          wrote on 29 May 2020, 10:38 last edited by jon-nyc
          #71

          The idea of the legislation was specifically to allow online platforms to not have to choose between publisher (editorial control and responsibility) or platform (neither), but rather to generally not be liable for people’s posts even while they do enforce some rules about them.

          Already in the days of Compuserve and Prodigy this was an issue - with no control they would quickly become cesspools but neither company could police and be responsible for everything posted by everyone. This law said they didn’t have to choose.

          Only non-witches get due process.

          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
          1 Reply Last reply
          • J Online
            J Online
            jon-nyc
            wrote on 29 May 2020, 11:18 last edited by
            #72

            Standby by for the principled conservatives to be against this as an aggressive overreach of the administrative state.... there still are a few out there....right?

            Only non-witches get due process.

            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
            G H 2 Replies Last reply 29 May 2020, 11:34
            • K Offline
              K Offline
              Klaus
              wrote on 29 May 2020, 11:23 last edited by
              #73

              Well, I'd say: Force them to choose. I personally would prefer them to be platforms: That they can't deny their service unless they are forced by law. But the current situation is just a mess.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • J Online
                J Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on 29 May 2020, 11:27 last edited by
                #74

                Spend much time at Gab?

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                1 Reply Last reply
                • K Offline
                  K Offline
                  Klaus
                  wrote on 29 May 2020, 11:30 last edited by Klaus
                  #75

                  No, I've never used Gab. I hear it's used a lot by extremists. If Gab has a quasi-monopoly on not censoring, then of course they are a honeypot for those kinds of people. But if every social platform would be like that, then those people would not be more visible than they are visible in non-online communication. I can handle that.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • J jon-nyc
                    29 May 2020, 11:18

                    Standby by for the principled conservatives to be against this as an aggressive overreach of the administrative state.... there still are a few out there....right?

                    G Offline
                    G Offline
                    George K
                    wrote on 29 May 2020, 11:34 last edited by
                    #76

                    @jon-nyc said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                    Standby by for the principled conservatives to be against this as an aggressive overreach of the administrative state.... there still are a few out there....right?

                    As you say, make them choose: Publisher or Platform. If they choose publisher, then their editorial choices, for them to be seen as fair, must be carried out throughout the medium. You'll note that death threats against Nick Sandmann are still up on Twitter. They can't begin to be considered fair until their standards are applied to everyone. I'm surprised that no high-profile person who was censored admonished on Twitter hasn't sued yet.

                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • K Offline
                      K Offline
                      Klaus
                      wrote on 29 May 2020, 11:39 last edited by
                      #77

                      Also, there would be an obvious way how social media companies could provide editorial control without censorship. They could just offer an option for every user whether they want to see all content, including potentially offensive or extremist content, or only a subset of the content selected by that company. More sophisticated variants of that scheme are easily conceivable, too.

                      YT goes in that direction a little. Sometimes they pop up something along the lines of "are you sure you want to see this".

                      It gets more complicated when it comes to ads and ad revenue, but I believe it's completely possible to design it in such a way that it assumes citizens are adults who can make their own decisions.

                      G 1 Reply Last reply 29 May 2020, 11:43
                      • K Klaus
                        29 May 2020, 11:39

                        Also, there would be an obvious way how social media companies could provide editorial control without censorship. They could just offer an option for every user whether they want to see all content, including potentially offensive or extremist content, or only a subset of the content selected by that company. More sophisticated variants of that scheme are easily conceivable, too.

                        YT goes in that direction a little. Sometimes they pop up something along the lines of "are you sure you want to see this".

                        It gets more complicated when it comes to ads and ad revenue, but I believe it's completely possible to design it in such a way that it assumes citizens are adults who can make their own decisions.

                        G Offline
                        G Offline
                        George K
                        wrote on 29 May 2020, 11:43 last edited by
                        #78

                        @Klaus said in Spot the threat to free speech:
                        it assumes citizens are adults who can make their own decisions.

                        So, it's doomed to fail, then.

                        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                        G 1 Reply Last reply 29 May 2020, 11:43
                        • G George K
                          29 May 2020, 11:43

                          @Klaus said in Spot the threat to free speech:
                          it assumes citizens are adults who can make their own decisions.

                          So, it's doomed to fail, then.

                          G Offline
                          G Offline
                          George K
                          wrote on 29 May 2020, 11:43 last edited by
                          #79

                          @George-K said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                          @Klaus said in Spot the threat to free speech:
                          it assumes citizens are adults who can make their own decisions.

                          So, it's doomed to fail, then.

                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • K Offline
                            K Offline
                            Klaus
                            wrote on 29 May 2020, 11:44 last edited by Klaus
                            #80

                            The only way of getting people to behave like adults is to let them fail and let them suffer the consequences of their actions.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • A Offline
                              A Offline
                              Axtremus
                              wrote on 29 May 2020, 11:49 last edited by
                              #81

                              Is TNCR a “publisher” or a “platform”?

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • K Offline
                                K Offline
                                Klaus
                                wrote on 29 May 2020, 19:04 last edited by
                                #82

                                Neither. It's like a biker bar.

                                But YT and Twitter are more like the market place these days. You can't get heard unless you use them.

                                L D 2 Replies Last reply 29 May 2020, 20:17
                                • J jon-nyc
                                  29 May 2020, 11:18

                                  Standby by for the principled conservatives to be against this as an aggressive overreach of the administrative state.... there still are a few out there....right?

                                  H Offline
                                  H Offline
                                  Horace
                                  wrote on 29 May 2020, 19:34 last edited by
                                  #83

                                  @jon-nyc said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                  Standby by for the principled conservatives to be against this as an aggressive overreach of the administrative state.... there still are a few out there....right?

                                  No, all the principled people are on the left. Just like all the objective, non-tribal people are there.

                                  Education is extremely important.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • J Online
                                    J Online
                                    jon-nyc
                                    wrote on 29 May 2020, 20:10 last edited by jon-nyc
                                    #84

                                    I’ll even take a pragmatic conservative who realizes that whatever administrative rule-making procedures he puts in place will inevitably be hijacked by the woke left.

                                    Only non-witches get due process.

                                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                    H 1 Reply Last reply 29 May 2020, 20:35
                                    • J Online
                                      J Online
                                      jon-nyc
                                      wrote on 29 May 2020, 20:11 last edited by
                                      #85

                                      There’s a reason principled conservatives don’t like the administrative state, after all.

                                      Only non-witches get due process.

                                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • K Klaus
                                        29 May 2020, 19:04

                                        Neither. It's like a biker bar.

                                        But YT and Twitter are more like the market place these days. You can't get heard unless you use them.

                                        L Offline
                                        L Offline
                                        Larry
                                        wrote on 29 May 2020, 20:17 last edited by
                                        #86

                                        @Klaus said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                        Neither. It's like a biker bar.

                                        Yeah, but for a fat girl we don't sweat much...

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • J jon-nyc
                                          29 May 2020, 20:10

                                          I’ll even take a pragmatic conservative who realizes that whatever administrative rule-making procedures he puts in place will inevitably be hijacked by the woke left.

                                          H Offline
                                          H Offline
                                          Horace
                                          wrote on 29 May 2020, 20:35 last edited by
                                          #87

                                          @jon-nyc said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                          I’ll even take a pragmatic conservative who realizes that whatever administrative rule-making procedures he puts in place will inevitably be hijacked by the woke left.

                                          I have no firm idea about whether Trump's move is for the best or not. I like the conversation it is initiating though.

                                          Education is extremely important.

                                          J 1 Reply Last reply 29 May 2020, 21:24
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                                          29 May 2020, 11:39


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