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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Spot the threat to free speech

Spot the threat to free speech

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  • L Offline
    L Offline
    Larry
    wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:42 last edited by
    #22

    I didn't know Twitter was a government agency... because you see, it was Twitter that made the first punch.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • J Offline
      J Offline
      jon-nyc
      wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:44 last edited by
      #23

      The seventh largest social media site adding commentary to someone's unedited post isn't a threat to free speech.

      The men with guns, or the rules enforced my men in suits with the implied power of the men with guns behind them, is the threat to free speech.

      Only non-witches get due process.

      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
      1 Reply Last reply
      • L Offline
        L Offline
        Loki
        wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:44 last edited by
        #24

        We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

        Second the right to free speech as a person is not the right of anonymous entity to spew polarizing garbage to millions of people. I don’t think the Constitution provides protection for that.

        H 1 Reply Last reply 27 May 2020, 16:43
        • J Offline
          J Offline
          jon-nyc
          wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:45 last edited by jon-nyc
          #25

          @Loki
          So you're saying Trump should be banned from Twitter altogether? Oh, never mind. You said anonymous.

          Only non-witches get due process.

          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
          1 Reply Last reply
          • J Offline
            J Offline
            jon-nyc
            wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:47 last edited by jon-nyc
            #26

            @Loki To be serious I'm dead-dog certain there have been court cases on whether you lose your right to free speech if publishing anonymously and there's no way the courts would have ever allowed that. I think if you reflected on it for a while you wouldn't be for it either.

            Only non-witches get due process.

            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
            L 1 Reply Last reply 27 May 2020, 16:45
            • L Offline
              L Offline
              Larry
              wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:48 last edited by
              #27

              Nope. I'm saying that Twitter tried to limit Trumps free speech, and he has a right to strike back. No, he has an obligation to strike back. We all have the same obligation. If you don't fight against attempts to limit freedom of speech, you will lose it.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • L Offline
                L Offline
                Larry
                wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:52 last edited by
                #28

                Free speech means free speech. In my way of seeing that, it's none of the courts' business.

                J T 2 Replies Last reply 27 May 2020, 15:55
                • X Offline
                  X Offline
                  xenon
                  wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:53 last edited by xenon
                  #29

                  Right - but there's a more basic issue at play here first.

                  Twitter is more akin to a bar.

                  The barkeep reigns supreme in the bar and can tell you to GTFO whenever they want. That's not a first amendment issue.

                  Do we want government to regulate social media as a first step?

                  L 1 Reply Last reply 27 May 2020, 15:59
                  • L Larry
                    27 May 2020, 15:52

                    Free speech means free speech. In my way of seeing that, it's none of the courts' business.

                    J Offline
                    J Offline
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:55 last edited by
                    #30

                    @Larry said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                    Free speech means free speech. In my way of seeing that, it's none of the courts' business.

                    Well, the courts only get involved when the government tries to limit it. So, if you believe in free speech the courts are your friend.

                    Only non-witches get due process.

                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • X xenon
                      27 May 2020, 15:53

                      Right - but there's a more basic issue at play here first.

                      Twitter is more akin to a bar.

                      The barkeep reigns supreme in the bar and can tell you to GTFO whenever they want. That's not a first amendment issue.

                      Do we want government to regulate social media as a first step?

                      L Offline
                      L Offline
                      Larry
                      wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:59 last edited by
                      #31

                      @xenon said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                      Right - but there's a more basic issue at play here first.

                      Twitter is more akin to a bar.

                      The barkeep reigns supreme in the bar and can tell you to GTFO whenever they want. That's not a first amendment issue.

                      Do we want government to regulate social media as a first step?

                      The bar analogy doesn't work for me because of the size and reach of Twitter.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • J Offline
                        J Offline
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:19 last edited by
                        #32

                        For the record I think Twitter was idiotic for doing this, best case it will achieve the opposite of what they hoped. That’s the best case.

                        Only non-witches get due process.

                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                        T 1 Reply Last reply 27 May 2020, 17:30
                        • L Offline
                          L Offline
                          Larry
                          wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:25 last edited by
                          #33

                          I agree.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • A Offline
                            A Offline
                            Axtremus
                            wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:37 last edited by
                            #34

                            Oh, if only Trump would boycott Twitter.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • L Offline
                              L Offline
                              Larry
                              wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:40 last edited by
                              #35

                              He would still get reelected, because the democrats have embraced a failed ideology and are running a moron for president.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • L Loki
                                27 May 2020, 15:44

                                We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

                                Second the right to free speech as a person is not the right of anonymous entity to spew polarizing garbage to millions of people. I don’t think the Constitution provides protection for that.

                                H Offline
                                H Offline
                                Horace
                                wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:43 last edited by
                                #36

                                @Loki said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

                                And the thing being exploited here is each individual's eagerness to pounce when the other tribe is seen to be crazy or stupid or evil. The best way to immunize ourselves against those trolls is to stop being so eager to do that.

                                Education is extremely important.

                                L M 2 Replies Last reply 27 May 2020, 16:49
                                • J jon-nyc
                                  27 May 2020, 15:47

                                  @Loki To be serious I'm dead-dog certain there have been court cases on whether you lose your right to free speech if publishing anonymously and there's no way the courts would have ever allowed that. I think if you reflected on it for a while you wouldn't be for it either.

                                  L Offline
                                  L Offline
                                  Loki
                                  wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:45 last edited by
                                  #37

                                  @jon-nyc said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                  @Loki To be serious I'm dead-dog certain there have been court cases on whether you lose your right to free speech if publishing anonymously and there's no way the courts would have ever allowed that. I think if you reflected on it for a while you wouldn't be for it either.

                                  Well it’s not the anonymous person that I was thinking about in general but does that North Korean operative in Pyongyang have the right to free speech on Twitter and Facebook?

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • H Horace
                                    27 May 2020, 16:43

                                    @Loki said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                    We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

                                    And the thing being exploited here is each individual's eagerness to pounce when the other tribe is seen to be crazy or stupid or evil. The best way to immunize ourselves against those trolls is to stop being so eager to do that.

                                    L Offline
                                    L Offline
                                    Loki
                                    wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:49 last edited by
                                    #38

                                    @Horace said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                    @Loki said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                    We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

                                    And the thing being exploited here is each individual's eagerness to pounce when the other tribe is seen to be crazy or stupid or evil. The best way to immunize ourselves against those trolls is to stop being so eager to do that.

                                    Let’s assume for a second that certain other countries have a vested interest in polarizing our country, which ones are targeting liberals?

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • L Larry
                                      27 May 2020, 15:52

                                      Free speech means free speech. In my way of seeing that, it's none of the courts' business.

                                      T Offline
                                      T Offline
                                      taiwan_girl
                                      wrote on 27 May 2020, 17:28 last edited by
                                      #39

                                      @Larry said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                      Free speech means free speech. In my way of seeing that, it's none of the courts' business.

                                      But there are limits to free speech. I will admit that I am not a constitution expert, but I do know that "free speech" is not 100% free.

                                      I cannot yell "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater.
                                      If untrue, I cannot posting everywhere that my neighbor is a sex molestor.

                                      (I guess I could, but there would be consequences.)

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • J jon-nyc
                                        27 May 2020, 16:19

                                        For the record I think Twitter was idiotic for doing this, best case it will achieve the opposite of what they hoped. That’s the best case.

                                        T Offline
                                        T Offline
                                        taiwan_girl
                                        wrote on 27 May 2020, 17:30 last edited by
                                        #40

                                        @jon-nyc said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                        For the record I think Twitter was idiotic for doing this, best case it will achieve the opposite of what they hoped. That’s the best case.

                                        True, but this situation should never have happened. There are so so so many things going on in the world that President Trump should be focusing on.

                                        Spending his time and energy posting tweets on the death of someone 19 years ago that (as far as I know) has been shown to be a natural death, seems to be a gigantic waste of time, energy, and he should be spending his time more productively.

                                        L 1 Reply Last reply 27 May 2020, 18:06
                                        • H Horace
                                          27 May 2020, 16:43

                                          @Loki said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                          We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

                                          And the thing being exploited here is each individual's eagerness to pounce when the other tribe is seen to be crazy or stupid or evil. The best way to immunize ourselves against those trolls is to stop being so eager to do that.

                                          M Offline
                                          M Offline
                                          Mik
                                          wrote on 27 May 2020, 17:37 last edited by
                                          #41

                                          @Horace said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                          @Loki said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                          We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

                                          And the thing being exploited here is each individual's eagerness to pounce when the other tribe is seen to be crazy or stupid or evil. The best way to immunize ourselves against those trolls is to stop being so eager to do that.

                                          There it is, right there. It only works if we let it and accept the characterization of the other side as devils.

                                          “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

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