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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Spot the threat to free speech

Spot the threat to free speech

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  • C Copper
    27 May 2020, 15:01

    @jon-nyc said in Spot the threat to free speech:

    The need for it was diminished with cable, and died with the internet.

    I think that is the question, has Twitter gotten to the size that once again raises the need?

    Ironically Mr. Trump has probably influenced it's size.

    J Online
    J Online
    jon-nyc
    wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:35 last edited by
    #20

    @Copper said in Spot the threat to free speech:

    @jon-nyc said in Spot the threat to free speech:

    The need for it was diminished with cable, and died with the internet.

    I think that is the question, has Twitter gotten to the size that once again raises the need?

    Ironically Mr. Trump has probably influenced it's size.

    Twitter is like 7th largest social media site, excluding the foreign ones that aren't in use here.

    If twitter is too large and needs the government to control its content surely Fox News does too.

    Only non-witches get due process.

    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
    C 1 Reply Last reply 27 May 2020, 23:08
    • L Larry
      27 May 2020, 15:23

      When someone does something to hinder free speech (Twitter) a person who speaks up about it and vows to stop them from doing it again (Trump) that person is not guilty of hindering free speech, but of taking action against the blocking of free speech. It's just like man A walks up to man B and hits him in the face with his fist, man B then hits him back, and you're trying to accuse man B of starting a fight.

      J Online
      J Online
      jon-nyc
      wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:39 last edited by jon-nyc
      #21

      @Larry said in Spot the threat to free speech:

      When someone does something to hinder free speech (Twitter) a person who speaks up about it and vows to stop them from doing it again (Trump) that person is not guilty of hindering free speech, but of taking action against the blocking of free speech. It's just like man A walks up to man B and hits him in the face with his fist, man B then hits him back, and you're trying to accuse man B of starting a fight.

      Man A vs Man B analogy fails. This is Government vs Man.

      Only non-witches get due process.

      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
      1 Reply Last reply
      • L Offline
        L Offline
        Larry
        wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:42 last edited by
        #22

        I didn't know Twitter was a government agency... because you see, it was Twitter that made the first punch.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • J Online
          J Online
          jon-nyc
          wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:44 last edited by
          #23

          The seventh largest social media site adding commentary to someone's unedited post isn't a threat to free speech.

          The men with guns, or the rules enforced my men in suits with the implied power of the men with guns behind them, is the threat to free speech.

          Only non-witches get due process.

          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
          1 Reply Last reply
          • L Offline
            L Offline
            Loki
            wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:44 last edited by
            #24

            We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

            Second the right to free speech as a person is not the right of anonymous entity to spew polarizing garbage to millions of people. I don’t think the Constitution provides protection for that.

            H 1 Reply Last reply 27 May 2020, 16:43
            • J Online
              J Online
              jon-nyc
              wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:45 last edited by jon-nyc
              #25

              @Loki
              So you're saying Trump should be banned from Twitter altogether? Oh, never mind. You said anonymous.

              Only non-witches get due process.

              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
              1 Reply Last reply
              • J Online
                J Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:47 last edited by jon-nyc
                #26

                @Loki To be serious I'm dead-dog certain there have been court cases on whether you lose your right to free speech if publishing anonymously and there's no way the courts would have ever allowed that. I think if you reflected on it for a while you wouldn't be for it either.

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                L 1 Reply Last reply 27 May 2020, 16:45
                • L Offline
                  L Offline
                  Larry
                  wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:48 last edited by
                  #27

                  Nope. I'm saying that Twitter tried to limit Trumps free speech, and he has a right to strike back. No, he has an obligation to strike back. We all have the same obligation. If you don't fight against attempts to limit freedom of speech, you will lose it.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • L Offline
                    L Offline
                    Larry
                    wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:52 last edited by
                    #28

                    Free speech means free speech. In my way of seeing that, it's none of the courts' business.

                    J T 2 Replies Last reply 27 May 2020, 15:55
                    • X Offline
                      X Offline
                      xenon
                      wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:53 last edited by xenon
                      #29

                      Right - but there's a more basic issue at play here first.

                      Twitter is more akin to a bar.

                      The barkeep reigns supreme in the bar and can tell you to GTFO whenever they want. That's not a first amendment issue.

                      Do we want government to regulate social media as a first step?

                      L 1 Reply Last reply 27 May 2020, 15:59
                      • L Larry
                        27 May 2020, 15:52

                        Free speech means free speech. In my way of seeing that, it's none of the courts' business.

                        J Online
                        J Online
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:55 last edited by
                        #30

                        @Larry said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                        Free speech means free speech. In my way of seeing that, it's none of the courts' business.

                        Well, the courts only get involved when the government tries to limit it. So, if you believe in free speech the courts are your friend.

                        Only non-witches get due process.

                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • X xenon
                          27 May 2020, 15:53

                          Right - but there's a more basic issue at play here first.

                          Twitter is more akin to a bar.

                          The barkeep reigns supreme in the bar and can tell you to GTFO whenever they want. That's not a first amendment issue.

                          Do we want government to regulate social media as a first step?

                          L Offline
                          L Offline
                          Larry
                          wrote on 27 May 2020, 15:59 last edited by
                          #31

                          @xenon said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                          Right - but there's a more basic issue at play here first.

                          Twitter is more akin to a bar.

                          The barkeep reigns supreme in the bar and can tell you to GTFO whenever they want. That's not a first amendment issue.

                          Do we want government to regulate social media as a first step?

                          The bar analogy doesn't work for me because of the size and reach of Twitter.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • J Online
                            J Online
                            jon-nyc
                            wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:19 last edited by
                            #32

                            For the record I think Twitter was idiotic for doing this, best case it will achieve the opposite of what they hoped. That’s the best case.

                            Only non-witches get due process.

                            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                            T 1 Reply Last reply 27 May 2020, 17:30
                            • L Offline
                              L Offline
                              Larry
                              wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:25 last edited by
                              #33

                              I agree.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • A Offline
                                A Offline
                                Axtremus
                                wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:37 last edited by
                                #34

                                Oh, if only Trump would boycott Twitter.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • L Offline
                                  L Offline
                                  Larry
                                  wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:40 last edited by
                                  #35

                                  He would still get reelected, because the democrats have embraced a failed ideology and are running a moron for president.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • L Loki
                                    27 May 2020, 15:44

                                    We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

                                    Second the right to free speech as a person is not the right of anonymous entity to spew polarizing garbage to millions of people. I don’t think the Constitution provides protection for that.

                                    H Offline
                                    H Offline
                                    Horace
                                    wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:43 last edited by
                                    #36

                                    @Loki said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                    We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

                                    And the thing being exploited here is each individual's eagerness to pounce when the other tribe is seen to be crazy or stupid or evil. The best way to immunize ourselves against those trolls is to stop being so eager to do that.

                                    Education is extremely important.

                                    L M 2 Replies Last reply 27 May 2020, 16:49
                                    • J jon-nyc
                                      27 May 2020, 15:47

                                      @Loki To be serious I'm dead-dog certain there have been court cases on whether you lose your right to free speech if publishing anonymously and there's no way the courts would have ever allowed that. I think if you reflected on it for a while you wouldn't be for it either.

                                      L Offline
                                      L Offline
                                      Loki
                                      wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:45 last edited by
                                      #37

                                      @jon-nyc said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                      @Loki To be serious I'm dead-dog certain there have been court cases on whether you lose your right to free speech if publishing anonymously and there's no way the courts would have ever allowed that. I think if you reflected on it for a while you wouldn't be for it either.

                                      Well it’s not the anonymous person that I was thinking about in general but does that North Korean operative in Pyongyang have the right to free speech on Twitter and Facebook?

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • H Horace
                                        27 May 2020, 16:43

                                        @Loki said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                        We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

                                        And the thing being exploited here is each individual's eagerness to pounce when the other tribe is seen to be crazy or stupid or evil. The best way to immunize ourselves against those trolls is to stop being so eager to do that.

                                        L Offline
                                        L Offline
                                        Loki
                                        wrote on 27 May 2020, 16:49 last edited by
                                        #38

                                        @Horace said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                        @Loki said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                        We’ve created social platforms that are a perfect host for outside influences to polarize our society. Much of twitter and Facebook is not Americans expressing their right to free speech but meddling and manipulating. The evidence for this in bots is quite clear.

                                        And the thing being exploited here is each individual's eagerness to pounce when the other tribe is seen to be crazy or stupid or evil. The best way to immunize ourselves against those trolls is to stop being so eager to do that.

                                        Let’s assume for a second that certain other countries have a vested interest in polarizing our country, which ones are targeting liberals?

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • L Larry
                                          27 May 2020, 15:52

                                          Free speech means free speech. In my way of seeing that, it's none of the courts' business.

                                          T Offline
                                          T Offline
                                          taiwan_girl
                                          wrote on 27 May 2020, 17:28 last edited by
                                          #39

                                          @Larry said in Spot the threat to free speech:

                                          Free speech means free speech. In my way of seeing that, it's none of the courts' business.

                                          But there are limits to free speech. I will admit that I am not a constitution expert, but I do know that "free speech" is not 100% free.

                                          I cannot yell "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater.
                                          If untrue, I cannot posting everywhere that my neighbor is a sex molestor.

                                          (I guess I could, but there would be consequences.)

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