TNCR Brain Trust Question

[Ivorythumper]

@george-k said in TNCR Brain Trust Question:

Tough one.

First of all, you have made the request to remove the trespass. They responded with an attorney and threatened you with action should the tree die. They have the right to a tree, but you have a right to not have it over your property. They lawyered up already, and my thought would be to get a legal opinion as well.

Secondly, I say that because, from what you've written, they don't seem to be the "neighborly" type. So, yeah, I'd get legal counsel.

Finally, if you do take "radical" action and amputate the offending limbs, and the tree dies and falls into your property, who's liable?

Good question about future liability -- the implication of "Since appellees in this case were only exercising their right to trim the branches and limbs of appellants' encroaching trees, they may not be held liable in damages for doing so" is that not liable is not liable. People have obligations to maintain their own property, and if the tree is dying they have to deal with it.

If we cut back some 30% of the canopy off of our property the tree will fall the other way according to the laws of physics...

[Ivorythumper]

@copper Yeah, but you're a rational actor. The neighbor is an expert on studying rational acts, not necessarily one herself.

[Jolly]

Is there anything growing underneath the tree and is the neighbor's backyard camera'd.

[George K]

@jolly said in TNCR Brain Trust Question:

Is there anything growing underneath the tree

From my (inexpert) reading of the law, what's under the tree, is irrelevant. If it encroaches on IT's property, it's his to deal with as he wishes.

The only question is this: If his actions to trim the tree kill it, what is his liability?

[George K]

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/trees-neighbors-faq.html#answer-1743443

My neighbor killed my tree. Am I entitled to compensation for the tree?

Yes. The basic rule is that someone who cuts down, removes, or hurts a tree without permission owes the tree's owner money to compensate for the harm done. You can sue to enforce that right, but you probably won't have to, once you tell your neighbor what the law is.

Can I trim the branches of the neighbor's tree that hang over my yard?

You have the legal right to trim tree branches up to the property line. But you may not go onto the neighbor's property or destroy the tree itself.

In almost every state, a person who intentionally injures someone else's tree is liable to the owner for two or three times the amount of actual monetary loss. These penalties protect tree owners by providing harsh deterrents to would-be loggers.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/neighbor-tree-damage-46933.html

What counts as "damage" to your tree?

To run afoul of the law, your neighbor doesn't have to chop down your tree. Its enough to just damage the health of your tree. For example, your neighbor has the legal right to trim branches of your tree if they hang over the property line. But if the trimming seriously injures your tree, your neighbor will be liable to you for the damage done. Similarly, if your neighbor uses a chemical in his or her yard to destroy unwanted roots, and the chemical seeps onto your property and kills one of your trees, your neighbor can be liable.

[Jolly]

@george-k said in TNCR Brain Trust Question:

@jolly said in TNCR Brain Trust Question:

Is there anything growing underneath the tree

From my (inexpert) reading of the law, what's under the tree, is irrelevant. If it encroaches on IT's property, it's his to deal with as he wishes.

The only question is this: If his actions to trim the tree kill it, what is his liability?

Kill it without the neighbors knowing it. Hence, my question.

[George K]

@jolly said in TNCR Brain Trust Question:

Kill it without the neighbors knowing it.

'Choot 'em!

[Ivorythumper]

@jolly said in TNCR Brain Trust Question:

Is there anything growing underneath the tree and is the neighbor's backyard camera'd.

I'm not about to poison it, if that's what you're thinking.

[George K]

@ivorythumper said in TNCR Brain Trust Question:

@jolly said in TNCR Brain Trust Question:

Is there anything growing underneath the tree and is the neighbor's backyard camera'd.

I'm not about to poison it, if that's what you're thinking.

Yeah, that would have some serious legal
exposure. Destroying neighbor's property?

Don't go there.

[Ivorythumper]

@george-k said in TNCR Brain Trust Question:

@ivorythumper said in TNCR Brain Trust Question:

@jolly said in TNCR Brain Trust Question:

Is there anything growing underneath the tree and is the neighbor's backyard camera'd.

I'm not about to poison it, if that's what you're thinking.

Yeah, that would have some serious legal
exposure. Destroying neighbor's property?

Don't go there.

The law basically requires me to get a judgment compelling them to remedy.

I read of a case where the neighbor trimmed to the property line, but the tree then leaned back away from the property line, and the neighbor was sued for over trimming and trespass damage.

I don't know how that was settled but I don't need any exposure to risk.

So the plea to the court would be to compel the neighbor to remedy at their own expense and liability. If the tree dies, that's on them. If any damage happens, that's on them. If the tree cannot be pruned back to property line without risk or damage, and has to be removed, that's on them. The tree is just in the wrong place and has been for decades as soon as it started to trespass. The trespass is negligence which is continuous and always tortious.

So get the judge to say to them "you must remedy the trespass as you see fit, but you must remedy the trespass".

That's how I'm reading the law as the only safe way to proceed without further legal entanglement.

[George K]

@ivorythumper said in TNCR Brain Trust Question:

So get the judge to say to them "you must remedy the trespass as you see fit, but you must remedy the trespass".
That's how I'm reading the law as the only safe way to proceed without further legal entanglement.

That sound about right to me, but I'm no lawyer.

Call Quirt Saul.

[Klaus]

Having a bad relationship with neighbours is one of the worst things for ones quality of life, in my opinion. We had bad neighbour relationships in the past, and that was hell. I personally am willing to endure and sacrifice a lot before I risk an angry neighbour.

But in this case, it seems that hope is lost. When lawyers are involved, the relationship is beyond repair.

[George K]

@klaus said in TNCR Brain Trust Question:

When lawyers are involved, the relationship is beyond repair.

Oh YES.

That bridge was crossed (by the neighbor) a year ago.

[Klaus]

Maybe remind your game theory neighbour that a neighbour relation is basically the iterated prisoner's dilemma, and there the Nash equilibrium is to cooperate, and not to betray.

[Copper]

Yes, I would say do whatever it takes to keep the relationship cordial, or at least peaceful.

But if it has gone this far, it may be too late.

I found this on nolo, it may not apply in PA
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/trees-neighbors-faq.html#answer-1743433

Can I trim the branches of the neighbor's tree that hang over my yard?

You have the legal right to trim tree branches up to the property line. But you may not go onto the neighbor's property or destroy the tree itself.

In almost every state, a person who intentionally injures someone else's tree is liable to the owner for two or three times the amount of actual monetary loss. These penalties protect tree owners by providing harsh deterrents to would-be loggers.

[Mik]

How much has to be trimmed to allow you to move forward with solar? That’s really the important thing here.

[George K]

@mik said in TNCR Brain Trust Question:

How much has to be trimmed to allow you to move forward with solar? That’s really the important thing here.

Not sure about that. Once the tree's branches cross the property line, it's up to the owner of the trespassed property how to deal with it. What he wants to do with it should be irrelevant.

My concern is whether the trespassed has any liability for damage to the tree that is trespassing, should it die.

[LuFins Dad]

Personally, I think everybody is going about this the wrong way.

May I suggest an escalating series of pranks leading to all sorts of crazy hijinks? It always works in the movies…

[Aqua Letifer]

They lawyered up. Which means if you pull a leaf off that tree, they're likely going to come after you. So yeah I'd lawyer the hell up.

Barring that, being a game theorist and all, I wonder what she knows about predictive analysis deriving from imperfect information, which in this case might include a flaming poo bag on their front porch or painting giant dicks on all property facing their windows.

[Aqua Letifer]

Actually no, I'd go full-on Ted Nancy on their asses. Every 2-3 weeks, draft up some insane bullshit you propose to do to the tree to remedy the situation (paint your side of it so it blends in with your yard, say), and get some yahoo, real or imagined, to provide a quote, just to make them jump through hoops to respond formally.

And there's always returning the leaves that fall on your side via registered mail.

EDIT to add: are CODs still a thing?