Pandemic of the vaccinated?
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If everyone is vaccinated then 100% of the cases will be breakthrough cases. This is not a measure of vaccine efficacy like the anti-vaxxers want you to believe.
@jon-nyc said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
If everyone is vaccinated then 100% of the cases will be breakthrough cases
Of course. However the total number of cases is really large. Look at Iceland and Florida - those numbers are not percentage, but absolute number of cases (per million).
The other thing, and the more important thing, is the number of hospitalizations/deaths/severe illnesses.
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@jon-nyc said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
narratives need to be served
Indeed. There are narratives to suit whomever.
After all, the narrative we were told back in the spring/summer was that vaccination will prevent you from getting infected, because "science."
And now, the "science" has changed, and so has the narrative.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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"It's probably more improv than science"
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@jon-nyc said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
narratives need to be served
Indeed. There are narratives to suit whomever.
After all, the narrative we were told back in the spring/summer was that vaccination will prevent you from getting infected, because "science."
And now, the "science" has changed, and so has the narrative.
@george-k said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
@jon-nyc said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
narratives need to be served
Indeed. There are narratives to suit whomever.
After all, the narrative we were told back in the spring/summer was that vaccination will prevent you from getting infected, because "science."
And now, the "science" has changed, and so has the narrative.
Yeah, I'm also getting sick of "the science says" arguments, especially when they are wrong.
Just like in climate change, both scientists and the media should be much more careful in how they present the state of the science and say "we don't know, really" much more often. Also, it's a good time to remember Hume's insight that science is about the "is" and not about the "ought" - the latter is the domain of politics and when scientists talk about "ought" they become politicians.
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@george-k said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
@jon-nyc said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
narratives need to be served
Indeed. There are narratives to suit whomever.
After all, the narrative we were told back in the spring/summer was that vaccination will prevent you from getting infected, because "science."
And now, the "science" has changed, and so has the narrative.
Yeah, I'm also getting sick of "the science says" arguments, especially when they are wrong.
Just like in climate change, both scientists and the media should be much more careful in how they present the state of the science and say "we don't know, really" much more often. Also, it's a good time to remember Hume's insight that science is about the "is" and not about the "ought" - the latter is the domain of politics and when scientists talk about "ought" they become politicians.
@klaus and how many political figures and talking heads told us, on television and social media (Yeah, Rachel Maddow, you!) that vaccination will stop the spread and "you can't get it" if you're vaccinated.
And that kind of misinformation still is all over social media.
And, as I've said many times before, I'm no anti-vaxxer to be sure (triple-dosed here), but c'mon. Stop with the hyperbole.
@Klaus , it's been many decades since I read Hume. That's a great statement from him.
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I don’t think the science changed. The virus did.
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@jon-nyc said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
narratives need to be served
Indeed. There are narratives to suit whomever.
After all, the narrative we were told back in the spring/summer was that vaccination will prevent you from getting infected, because "science."
And now, the "science" has changed, and so has the narrative.
@george-k said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
@jon-nyc said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
narratives need to be served
Indeed. There are narratives to suit whomever.
After all, the narrative we were told back in the spring/summer was that vaccination will prevent you from getting infected, because "science."
And now, the "science" has changed, and so has the narrative.
That may have been the message in the US, but not up here, at least at the national level. The message from Ottawa and the various national media outlets, was that the vaccine would lessen the likelihood of hospitalization and severe outcomes in the event of infection. It stressed there were no guarantees the vaccine(s) would prevent infections although it would probably help prevent spread in the community. Still it was vital to have as many people as possible vaccinated.
At the provincial levels it was entirely other narratives. Some were cavalier. For example the moronic toads governing this province went as far as to proclaim the pandemic over and done as 1 July - only to have Delta bite their sorry political asses off in September. Other provinces were more cautious in their narratives.
Elbows up!
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@george-k said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
@jon-nyc said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
narratives need to be served
Indeed. There are narratives to suit whomever.
After all, the narrative we were told back in the spring/summer was that vaccination will prevent you from getting infected, because "science."
And now, the "science" has changed, and so has the narrative.
That may have been the message in the US, but not up here, at least at the national level. The message from Ottawa and the various national media outlets, was that the vaccine would lessen the likelihood of hospitalization and severe outcomes in the event of infection. It stressed there were no guarantees the vaccine(s) would prevent infections although it would probably help prevent spread in the community. Still it was vital to have as many people as possible vaccinated.
At the provincial levels it was entirely other narratives. Some were cavalier. For example the moronic toads governing this province went as far as to proclaim the pandemic over and done as 1 July - only to have Delta bite their sorry political asses off in September. Other provinces were more cautious in their narratives.
@renauda said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
It stressed there were no guarantees the vaccine(s) would prevent infections although it would probably help prevent spread in the community.
That there were no guarantees was stressed
And simultaneously the guarantees were stressed
Either fact could be confirmed by saying "Mr. Trump".
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@renauda said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
It stressed there were no guarantees the vaccine(s) would prevent infections although it would probably help prevent spread in the community.
That there were no guarantees was stressed
And simultaneously the guarantees were stressed
Either fact could be confirmed by saying "Mr. Trump".
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@renauda said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
All that can be confirmed is that Mr. Copper makes no sense in his post.
Yes, it is crazy, isn't it?
Some people say one thing, and other people say something completely different.
I do not know what Trump has to do with the messaging around C19 vaccines in Canada or outside the USA. If you care to make that connection for me, there may be a chance I will be able to make sense of your post.
In the meantime however, I will not hold my breath for a coherent explanation. I doubt such exists.
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@jon-nyc said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
If everyone is vaccinated then 100% of the cases will be breakthrough cases. This is not a measure of vaccine efficacy like the anti-vaxxers want you to believe.
That would be an effective argument if there weren’t 1) a significantly large cohort of unvaxxed (there is) and 2) the overall number of cases were reducing (they aren’t).
Initially there was a push on the vaccines preventing spread in official pressers then they shifted to effectiveness against severe COVID. However, the entire push for vaccine mandates has been about preventing spread and that unvaxxed individuals are a danger to their Aunt Agnes and everyone around them.
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@jon-nyc said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
If everyone is vaccinated then 100% of the cases will be breakthrough cases. This is not a measure of vaccine efficacy like the anti-vaxxers want you to believe.
That would be an effective argument if there weren’t 1) a significantly large cohort of unvaxxed (there is) and 2) the overall number of cases were reducing (they aren’t).
Initially there was a push on the vaccines preventing spread in official pressers then they shifted to effectiveness against severe COVID. However, the entire push for vaccine mandates has been about preventing spread and that unvaxxed individuals are a danger to their Aunt Agnes and everyone around them.
@lufins-dad said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
@jon-nyc said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
If everyone is vaccinated then 100% of the cases will be breakthrough cases. This is not a measure of vaccine efficacy like the anti-vaxxers want you to believe.
That would be an effective argument if there weren’t 1) a significantly large cohort of unvaxxed (there is) and 2) the overall number of cases were reducing (they aren’t).
Initially there was a push on the vaccines preventing spread in official pressers then they shifted to effectiveness against severe COVID.
They "changed their minds" about this because variants initially were not very effective in causing breakthrough cases. Then they were, and very much so.
The pandemic keeps changing. That's why the recommended practices do.
And then there are the policy assholes who now have to develop rules for not only the biggest change in our day-to-day in living history, but one that didn't exist two years ago.
There are going to be many policy screw-ups. Very few of these people are rubbing their hands together, laughing to themselves in their basements. Most of them are just incompetent.
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@lufins-dad said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
@jon-nyc said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
If everyone is vaccinated then 100% of the cases will be breakthrough cases. This is not a measure of vaccine efficacy like the anti-vaxxers want you to believe.
That would be an effective argument if there weren’t 1) a significantly large cohort of unvaxxed (there is) and 2) the overall number of cases were reducing (they aren’t).
Initially there was a push on the vaccines preventing spread in official pressers then they shifted to effectiveness against severe COVID.
They "changed their minds" about this because variants initially were not very effective in causing breakthrough cases. Then they were, and very much so.
The pandemic keeps changing. That's why the recommended practices do.
And then there are the policy assholes who now have to develop rules for not only the biggest change in our day-to-day in living history, but one that didn't exist two years ago.
There are going to be many policy screw-ups. Very few of these people are rubbing their hands together, laughing to themselves in their basements. Most of them are just incompetent.
@aqua-letifer said in Pandemic of the vaccinated?:
Very few of these people are rubbing their hands together, laughing to themselves in their basements. Most of them are just incompetent.
Yes? I've never said that these people are maniacal geniuses with evil plots. I think most of them are well-intentioned incompetents. That doesn't make their decisions any less damaging.
