"You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine."
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@George-K
Many times what the President says will have a greater impact than what he does. Words are actions, in that sense.Like it or not, he sets the tone for how many citizens will treat the seriousness of a potential pandemic threat as well as for how many state and local officials might respond with local orders.
So whether it be through a signed action (e.g., executive order) or through a coherent message of caution and communication of the short term pain but long term benefits of shutting things down sooner rather than later, there are many things Trump could've done (and said) that would've enabled citizens and local governments to take action sooner than they did...which would've helped prevent some of the deaths we have now seen.
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@xenon said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
I'll chime in here with the preface that my key criticism of Trump is that he's just not intellectually up to the job of governing.
Well... up to the point where China and WHO fucked us in the ass, he was doing a pretty damn good job in my book.
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@Improviso said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
@xenon said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
I'll chime in here with the preface that my key criticism of Trump is that he's just not intellectually up to the job of governing.
Well... up to the point where China and WHO fucked us in the ass, he was doing a pretty damn good job in my book.
It's curious - he was praising Xi pretty hard until the end of Feb. On transparency - lol. Raise your hands if you believed China was being transparent at any point.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/15/trump-china-coronavirus-188736
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George - your premise that the things he says don’t have real world effects and can therefore be swept aside seems pretty obviously wrong.
As for actions, the administration fucked up testing, was late in treating equipment procurement as the emergency it was (and is) and remains insufficiently prepared for reopening. He lives too much by the news cycle to ever get ahead of this.
Let me turn the question around - what part of our covid response did we really get right?
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My main problem isn't with what Trump's administration has done, it's been his appalling communication.
He's contradicted himself, Tweeted really stupid things that undermine his own government's policies, and during some of the briefings has gone on truly bizarre flights of fantasy. This stuff has encouraged people who think this is all some deep-state conspiracy to do Christ-alone-knows-what. The single most important job you have in a briefing is to be clear. This isn't an election rally, he's supposed to be addressing a national crisis.
And no, I don't think he's done a fantastic job with his actions either, but to be fair to him, most countries have fucked this up.
Yes, I think Biden's shit as well, so don't bother.
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George - is your implicit argument here that we didn't need as many ventilators as we thought - so what a waste of time and effort? Similarly PPE isn't that important, it was/is going to be a waste of time anyways?
I don't want to put words in your mouth, so help me unpack that.
I didn't say anything about PPE, to be sure. Perhaps someone who has a better understanding of how these contracts work can tell me if this was truly negligence on the part of the Obama/Trump administrations in not securing them vs them not being available (see Improv's comments above).
As to ventilators, Cuomo claimed that NY would need, iirc, 40,000 ventilators (the number might be wrong, but it's the correct order of magnitude). And yet, lo and behold, at the beginning of May, New York was shipping them elsewhere. They came nowhere close to needing 40K. The peak need in early April was ... 5,000.
As to projecting other needs, how did that need for 140K ICU beds work out? New York needed 23,000.
[snark] Of course, those needs were mitigated by having about 5,000 die in nursing homes by being exposed. [/snark]
The future's hard to predict, isn't it?
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@xenon said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
I'll chime in here with the preface that my key criticism of Trump is that he's just not intellectually up to the job of governing.
Theres two reasons for that... the first reason is because you formed your opinion of him from what the media tells you to think, and the second reason is because you don't know how to tell who is and who is not "intellectually up to the job".
That's laughable, anyway. That is the argument used by elitist snobs.
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Is that what was meant by this being a family forum - we post pictures of our mentally disadvantaged relatives?
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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@89th said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
@Jolly while that timeline has bias smeared all over it, it does include a number of actions Trump took that were good. I've never argued against that. Which leads me to...
@Larry Incorrect, indeed that is exactly what I've been saying all along. It just triggered your TDS, but my message has been the same. You can view the start of this in Post 63 of the US has Shitloads thread and follow my comments there as well as in this thread. It's been the same message all along. Don't let your TDS blind you. I've been apolitical the entire time.
The bottom line also remains the same. We now have over 90,000 american deaths, and my position is this number would be smaller had the president not taken a "not as bad as the flu" position in early/mid March and had he advocated for stricter social distancing earlier, it would've helped lower the exponential growth we have seen since. None of this is even debatable, really. But go ahead...let the TDS "most competent president of our lifetime" kick in.
I admitted bias and asked for refutation. Is the timeline factually correct?
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@xenon said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
@Improviso said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
@xenon said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
I'll chime in here with the preface that my key criticism of Trump is that he's just not intellectually up to the job of governing.
Well... up to the point where China and WHO fucked us in the ass, he was doing a pretty damn good job in my book.
It's curious - he was praising Xi pretty hard until the end of Feb. On transparency - lol. Raise your hands if you believed China was being transparent at any point.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/15/trump-china-coronavirus-188736
Skippy,
At that point, we're still wondering whether we were being lied to, or not.
Secondly, do you really want to piss on the guy who can put a stop on the PPE pipeline?
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@George-K said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
George - is your implicit argument here that we didn't need as many ventilators as we thought - so what a waste of time and effort? Similarly PPE isn't that important, it was/is going to be a waste of time anyways?
I don't want to put words in your mouth, so help me unpack that.
I didn't say anything about PPE, to be sure. Perhaps someone who has a better understanding of how these contracts work can tell me if this was truly negligence on the part of the Obama/Trump administrations in not securing them vs them not being available (see Improv's comments above).
As to ventilators, Cuomo claimed that NY would need, iirc, 40,000 ventilators (the number might be wrong, but it's the correct order of magnitude). And yet, lo and behold, at the beginning of May, New York was shipping them elsewhere. They came nowhere close to needing 40K. The peak need in early April was ... 5,000.
As to projecting other needs, how did that need for 140K ICU beds work out? New York needed 23,000.
[snark] Of course, those needs were mitigated by having about 5,000 die in nursing homes by being exposed. [/snark]
The future's hard to predict, isn't it?
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Note: While learning about contracting, you may see information online about the Central Contractor Registration (CCR), however, this system was replaced by SAM. Currently, contractors only need to register in SAM. -
@Jolly said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
@xenon said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
@Improviso said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
@xenon said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
I'll chime in here with the preface that my key criticism of Trump is that he's just not intellectually up to the job of governing.
Well... up to the point where China and WHO fucked us in the ass, he was doing a pretty damn good job in my book.
It's curious - he was praising Xi pretty hard until the end of Feb. On transparency - lol. Raise your hands if you believed China was being transparent at any point.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/15/trump-china-coronavirus-188736
Skippy,
At that point, we're still wondering whether we were being lied to, or not.
Secondly, do you really want to piss on the guy who can put a stop on the PPE pipeline?
@Jolly What did you learn in March that you didn't know by the end of Feb? Also - why put in your first N95 order on March 21st - if this was all about managing supply from them?
I'm sure you'll crank up the degrees on the chess for yet another brilliant rationale.
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Second part (I'll get back to Xenon in a moment...)
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Read all of the documentation about the contracting opportunity very carefully. Every opportunity is different and reading all of the information is extremely important so you’ll understand the requirements.
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Past performance references
Pricing and terms of the proposal
Once your offer is reviewed, you will receive a response from the government. The response could let you know your offer has been accepted or rejected, it could be a request to schedule a meeting to negotiate terms, or it could be a request for more information. If you do not receive a response from the government within three months, reach out to the contact person listed in the solicitation. -
@xenon said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
@Jolly said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
@xenon said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
@Improviso said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
@xenon said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
I'll chime in here with the preface that my key criticism of Trump is that he's just not intellectually up to the job of governing.
Well... up to the point where China and WHO fucked us in the ass, he was doing a pretty damn good job in my book.
It's curious - he was praising Xi pretty hard until the end of Feb. On transparency - lol. Raise your hands if you believed China was being transparent at any point.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/15/trump-china-coronavirus-188736
Skippy,
At that point, we're still wondering whether we were being lied to, or not.
Secondly, do you really want to piss on the guy who can put a stop on the PPE pipeline?
@Jolly What did you learn in March that you didn't know by the end of Feb? Also - why put in your first N95 order on March 21st - if this was all about managing supply from them?
I'm sure you'll crank up the degrees on the chess for yet another brilliant rationale.
You know what you know, when you know it. To ignore that things change daily, sometimes hourly in a pandemic...Well, go look at Jon's daily thread.
Secondly, how do you do an addendum to a Federal contract? Or in this case do you think it better to do a RFP? Or course, Trump has more latitude in a crisis, but how many laws do you wish him to break, in order to satisfy your whims?
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@Jolly I'm not disagreeing with you that things change on the daily and there's tons of ambiguity.
Again - my main point is that Trump is a bad thinker. It's clear he's just reacting.
It's always a gamble to have a strong POV about something as it's developing and as your understanding is developing. I know - that's a big part of my job.
The thing is - when it turns out you were wrong - you need to explain why you thought what you did and how circumstances changed.
If you keep taking strong points of view and come up short time after time, then gloss over the fact that it happened - well then anyone paying attention can see you're full of crap.
And again - my issue is the guy at the top is full of crap to the point of being useless. Nothing he says has any credibility. He's funny though.
I'm no expert on pandemic response.
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@xenon said in "You're damn right I'm taking hydroxychloroquine.":
@Jolly I'm not disagreeing with you that things change on the daily and there's tons of ambiguity.
Again - my main point is that Trump is a bad thinker. It's clear he's just reacting.
It's always a gamble to have a strong POV about something as it's developing and as your understanding is developing. I know - that's a big part of my job.
The thing is - when it turns out you were wrong - you need to explain why you thought what you did and how circumstances changed.
If you keep taking strong points of view and come up short time after time, then gloss over the fact that it happened - well then anyone paying attention can see you're full of crap.
And again - my issue is the guy at the top is full of crap to the point of being useless. Nothing he says has any credibility. He's funny though.
I'm no expert on pandemic response.
Dance, monkey, dance.
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Example - look how much uncertainty he's sown on masks. There's a bunch of research coming out daily now that masks work.
He could throw his weight behind masks and say - let's get back out there. Masks give us some added protection, let's keep social distancing to the extent possible. But let's get out there.
It'd actually help the economy open faster.
But no - he has political hills he wants to die on.
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