Alec Baldwin what the fuck
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@mik said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
@89th said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
@jolly you realize to the average uninformed person those TOTALLY look like normal bullets.
But that is not who we are talking about. there are strict work safety rules that have to be followed regarding handling prop guns on movie and theatrical sets.
And on the sets, the guys handling the weapons are trained specifically on those weapons as well.
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By law, there has to be an "armorer" on set. He is responsible for all weapons.
You have to be very careful with the loads in blanks. I believe (some don't) in the theory of detonation, whereby light loads of faster burning smokeless powders, which are supposed to undergo a controlled burn, instead undergo an intracase explosion at the end of the case with destructive consequences.
And even when loading blanks correctly the wad will exit at high velocity, causing tissue damage if somebody is close enough.
Baldwin's accident sounds like a bullet, not a blank. And don't forget, bullets pass through people and keep right on going. Wouldn't be hard to shoot two people with one bullet.
Somebody has made a gigantic goof. There is a rumor floating around that the weapon had been used a day or two ago with live ammo. Head-banging stupid on the part of the armorer, to have a live round anywhere in the vicinity of a movie set.
Secondly, and I can't emphasize this enough, never point a gun at something you don't intend to kill. Even in the movies, you don't have to draw a bead on the targeted person to make it look real.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@jolly said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
Even in the movies, you don't have to draw a bead on the targeted person to make it look real.
Indeed. As I've said many times, I don't own a firearm, but I respect the training and education that's involved in the responsible ownership of one.
So, was Baldwin just "goofing around?"
There are lots of tragedies reported with people just "goofing around" with firearms.
Here's another.
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Baldwin always been very anti-gun. I suspect he doesn't know anymore than what he's learned in the movies.
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@george-k said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
Are there people that just instantly go through people’s Twitter history over every frigging thing?
Me/rry/Christmas
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@lufins-dad said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
Are there people that just instantly go through people’s Twitter history over every frigging thing?
Of course!
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@mik said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
@89th said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
@jolly you realize to the average uninformed person those TOTALLY look like normal bullets.
But that is not who we are talking about. there are strict work safety rules that have to be followed regarding handling prop guns on movie and theatrical sets.
Agreed, it will be very interesting to hear what the investigation finds.
@Jolly i appreciate your knowledge on this too. Your breadth of knowledge never stops amazing me. Heck the other day I was burning some wood in a fire pit and had the brief thought “I wonder what jolly would think about this wood” lolz
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@89th said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
@mik said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
@89th said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
@jolly you realize to the average uninformed person those TOTALLY look like normal bullets.
But that is not who we are talking about. there are strict work safety rules that have to be followed regarding handling prop guns on movie and theatrical sets.
Agreed, it will be very interesting to hear what the investigation finds.
@Jolly i appreciate your knowledge on this too. Your breadth of knowledge never stops amazing me. Heck the other day I was burning some wood in a fire pit and had the brief thought “I wonder what jolly would think about this wood” lolz
That's me...An ocean of knowledge 100 miles wide and about an inch deep!
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@jolly said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
Secondly, and I can't emphasize this enough, never point a gun at something you don't intend to kill.
Story coming out now is that this was part of a rehearsal before (pardon the expression) shooting the scene. He was handed the gun and told that it was "cold," whereas it was, in fact, loaded with a live round.
The armorer was not union, and we don't know anything about his/her qualifications.
So, the question remains, why was there a live round on a movie set?
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Just some of my old army habits kicking in. U pick a weapon, or someone gives one to you. first thing u do, draw back and check the chamber is empty. Not just look, stick your finger in. Then point it 60 degrees skyward away from anyone and fire it empty. Then, Safety on. Ok. Now you can proceed and do whatever you were planning to do. Clean it. Break it apart. Go make a number 2 in the crap house. Whatever. And never never believe anyone who says, I checked it, it’s empty.
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@bachophile said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
Just some of my old army habits kicking in. U pick a weapon, or someone gives one to you. first thing u do, draw back and check the chamber is empty. Not just look, stick your finger in. Then point it 60 degrees skyward away from anyone and fire it empty. Then, Safety on. Ok. Now you can proceed and do whatever you were planning to do. Clean it. Break it apart. Go make a number 2 in the crap house. Whatever. And never never believe anyone who says, I checked it, it’s empty.
All good points. However, on a movie set things might be different. If what I'm reading is true, the responsibility for safety is on the armorer if they're rehearsing or filming a scene. If it was supposed to be loaded with a blank, should the actor have checked? Would he even be able to tell the difference?
Just asking, trying to get a sense of who's responsible here.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@george-k said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
@bachophile said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
Just some of my old army habits kicking in. U pick a weapon, or someone gives one to you. first thing u do, draw back and check the chamber is empty. Not just look, stick your finger in. Then point it 60 degrees skyward away from anyone and fire it empty. Then, Safety on. Ok. Now you can proceed and do whatever you were planning to do. Clean it. Break it apart. Go make a number 2 in the crap house. Whatever. And never never believe anyone who says, I checked it, it’s empty.
All good points. However, on a movie set things might be different. If what I'm reading is true, the responsibility for safety is on the armorer if they're rehearsing or filming a scene. If it was supposed to be loaded with a blank, should the actor have checked? Would he even be able to tell the difference?
Just asking, trying to get a sense of who's responsible here.
Both.
Bach is absolutely right. You never take anybody's word for whether a weapon is loaded or not. You always check for yourself. That error is on Baldwin.
You never have live ammo on the set and you always check your prop guns to make sure if they are loaded or not, and if those loads are blanks. That error is on the armorer.
Lastly, you don't point guns at anything you don't intend to kill. That's a training error.
Hopefully, something good will come out of this horrible mess.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@jolly said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
That error is on Baldwin.
Not that Baldwin's anguish is any worse than that of the victim's loved ones, but . . .
I keep picturing his thought processes: "I didn't know it had a live bullet, I would never have aimed the gun at him if I'd known." And the thought coming back, "Why did you aim the gun at him in the first place? Why?"
No exoneration.
Again, the loss to the victim and his family is much greater, but Baldwin will never be the same after this. The rest of his life he will be haunted by it. How will he ever again have a carefree moment?
Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka
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@catseye3 said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
And the thought coming back, "Why did you aim the gun at him in the first place? Why?"
No exoneration.If it was rehearsal for a shot, I can see it happening. The person killed was a cinematographer, presumably standing behind, or near the cameraman. There are countless scenes where an actor points the gun at the camera and fires.
But, we don't know the circumstances of when, or why, the gun was fired.
If he was "goofing around," then, yeah, you're right.
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@george-k said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
@jolly said in Alec Baldwin what the fuck:
Lastly, you don't point guns at anything you don't intend to kill. That's a training error.
I understand, and agree.
However, in a MOVIE, that standard has to be different, no?
Doesn't have to be. Because of camera angles and CGI, you can either aim to miss or fake the shot and put the muzzle flare in later. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, I profess ignorance.
But...Lessons earned are lessons learned, and sometimes lessons get reinforced. I had a barn cat by the name of Blackie. Blackie was about half grown, but he couldn't meow properly. As a kitten, something had gotten ahold of him and crooked his neck a little. My wife nursed him back, but he always had that deformity. Pretty decent cat, though.
I was working around the house one day, when I spied him just a clawing away at a fruit tree I had just planted. I hollered at him, and he never missed a beat. Pissed, I drew my pistol and hip shot one about six feet over his head.
Except I didn't. I nailed him, center. Then I had to walk out there and finish him off, as he flopped around from being gutshot. Then, I had to walk back and tell the wife I'd killed the cat she'd nursed.
Podnuh, that's a long, long walk.
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The 24-year-old head armorer in charge of guns on Alec Baldwin film where cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was tragically shot and killed on Thursday had admitted she wasn't sure she was ready for the job in an interview before filming started.
'I almost didn't take the job because I wasn't sure if I was ready, but doing it, it went really smoothly,' Hannah Gutierrez-Reed said in a podcast interview last month after leading the firearms department for The Old Way, starring Nicolas Cage - her first time as head armorer.
She also admitted in the podcast interview she found loading blanks into a gun 'the scariest' thing because she did not know how to do it and had sought help from her father, legendary gunsmith Thell Reed, to get over the fear.
It comes as the film crew revealed they walked off set hours before the fatal accident over safety fears after firearms were accidentally discharged three times - including once by Baldwin's stunt double who had been told the gun was not loaded, and twice in a closed cabin.
A search warrant released Friday said that Gutierrez-Reed laid out three prop guns on a cart outside the filming location, and first assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the gun from the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds.
'Cold gun!' shouted Halls before handing the gun to Baldwin, using the phrase to signal to cast and crew that the gun was safe to fire for the scene, the warrant said.
Seconds later, filming a scene inside an Old West-style church, Baldwin apparently aimed towards the camera and pulled the trigger, accidentally killing Hutchins as she filmed him, and injuring director Joel Souza, who stood behind her.
Neither Halls nor Gutierrez-Reed immediately returned messages from DailyMail.com late on Friday. Neither has been charged or named as a criminal suspect in the case, though a police investigation is ongoing.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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According to the Los Angeles Times, about half a dozen members of the camera crew on Rust walked out hours before the tragedy after protesting over working conditions on the set at the Bonanza Creek Ranch near Santa Fe.
The union members had reportedly complained that they were promised hotel rooms in Santa Fe, but once filming of the Western began they were required to drive 50 miles (80km) from Albuquerque every morning.
Meanwhile, the BBC has obtained a document showing which crew members were listed as scheduled to be on set that day.
It names a head armourer, the crew member responsible for checking firearms. Hannah Gutierrez Reed is in her twenties and, according to the LA Times, had recently worked in this role for the first time.
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Sounds like shoestring production meets incompetent armorer.
Baldwin is not criminally liable. As producer, he's going to incur shared liability in the civil suit.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion.
