The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.
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wrote on 14 May 2020, 13:59 last edited by
Our return to work plan is going to require that we wear masks at all times.
I'd be considerably more productive if I worked from home.
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wrote on 14 May 2020, 14:00 last edited by
My company is making a return to work strictly optional for those who are able to do their job from home. I will not be returning on a regular basis until I am told I have to.
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wrote on 14 May 2020, 14:06 last edited by
@Loki said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
How big is the group that won’t wear masks? Is it KKK or Antifa sized?
How big it gets I think will depend on right wing media. Will they cover them as freedom fighters or kooks?
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Our return to work plan is going to require that we wear masks at all times.
I'd be considerably more productive if I worked from home.
wrote on 14 May 2020, 14:19 last edited by Mik@Doctor-Phibes said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
Our return to work plan is going to require that we wear masks at all times.
I'd be considerably more productive if I worked from home.
I'd just tell them that is your plan. Then ask them what is the benefit to being in person that could possibly outweigh the risk of virus transmission? Masks make it safer, not safe. Might want to get your team all singing the same tune.
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wrote on 14 May 2020, 14:33 last edited by
Still looking for how big the anti-mask movement really is? So far seems like the issue is cannon fodder for rhetorical arguments. Where is the science around how big the anti-mask movement really is????
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wrote on 14 May 2020, 14:42 last edited by
I don’t know.
The relevant questions are:
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How big will it get?
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How big does it have to be to become epidemiologically significant?
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wrote on 14 May 2020, 14:43 last edited by Doctor Phibes
I for one do not have a good feeling about what's going to happen this summer.
Westerners do not appear to have a good tolerance for medium-term discomfort.
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I don’t know.
The relevant questions are:
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How big will it get?
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How big does it have to be to become epidemiologically significant?
wrote on 14 May 2020, 14:48 last edited by@jon-nyc said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
The relevant questions are:
- How big will it get?
That's what she said...
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wrote on 14 May 2020, 14:48 last edited by
In my area nearly everybody is wearing masks. I'm an outlier in that when I walk my dog I don't wear one. I do when I go to the store.
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wrote on 14 May 2020, 14:55 last edited by
I don't wear a mask walking the dog, but I take one with me just in case. We wear them if we go shopping.
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@Loki said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
How big is the group that won’t wear masks? Is it KKK or Antifa sized?
How big it gets I think will depend on right wing media. Will they cover them as freedom fighters or kooks?
wrote on 14 May 2020, 15:14 last edited by@jon-nyc said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
@Loki said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
How big is the group that won’t wear masks? Is it KKK or Antifa sized?
How big it gets I think will depend on right wing media. Will they cover them as freedom fighters or kooks?
Maybe the left wing media will cover them as well organized forces subverting our American institutions, just like they cover Nazis and the KKK.
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wrote on 14 May 2020, 15:16 last edited by
At what point will it be OK to not wear masks?
When nobody in the whole world has the COVID-19?
When fewer than a million Americans have it?
When 91 percent of everyone in the USA has received the vaccine?
When we get tired of masks?
When a democrat is elected president?
Without some sort of measurement I don't see how wearing or not wearing the mask can be right or wrong. This is just a bunch of virtuous emotional outbursts.
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wrote on 14 May 2020, 15:22 last edited by
@Copper said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
Without some sort of measurement I don't see how wearing or not wearing the mask can be right or wrong. This is just a bunch of virtuous emotional outbursts.
Yes the modern left has successfully fetishised the idea of having strong emotional reactions to things, of course as long as they're the correct things to have strong emotional reactions to. I'm pretty sure it goes against every historical precept of a stable civilization, to be encouraging people to go around looking for stuff to flip out over.
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wrote on 14 May 2020, 15:23 last edited by
By the way, those fetishised emotional reactions have been re-labeled by the left as "compassion".
I sometimes wonder if the folk proudest of their compassion spent their childhoods huddled in a corner afraid of the word and as adults finally found a way to reframe their weakness as a strength.
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wrote on 14 May 2020, 15:32 last edited by Improviso
Q. What's the difference between cloth masks and medical masks, such as an N95 mask?
A. The idea behind an N95 mask is it has a filtering ability down to, and actually below, the size of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. So the coronavirus is about 0.12 microns in diameter and N95 (masks) protect down to 0.1 microns, with 95% efficiency, which is where it gets its name.
We don't want the public to think that the recommendation is for medical masking. That would be detrimental to us as a society, health care providers and patients who are sick with the disease need those masks.
Many risks associated with cloth masks
Cloth masks are commonly used in developing countries and many non-standard practices about their cleaning and reuse have evolved. Most studies about cloth masks were conducted before the development of disposable masks. The penetration through cloth is reported to be high. In one study, it was found that 40-90% of particles are able to penetrate cloth masks.
Cloth masks let through more particles
A large prospective RCT study (MacIntyre et al., 2015) showed that moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks, and poor filtration may even result in increased risk of infection. They showed that cloth masks resulted in significantly higher rates of infection than medical masks, and performed worse than the controls.
Cloth masks resulted in higher infection rates
The virus may survive on the surface of the cloth masks. Consequently, self-contamination through repeated use and improper doffing is possible (e.g. contaminated cloth mask may transfer pathogen from the mask to the bare hands of the wearer).
Cloth masks facilitate self-contamination
Although any material may provide a physical barrier to an infection, if it does not fit well around the nose and mouth, or the material allows infectious particles to freely pass through it, then it will be of no benefit and also unsafe.
For those who wear a mask for necessity, such as healthcare workers, regular training and fit testing must be emphasized. For those who choose to wear a homemade mask, the requirements of cleaning and changing the mask should be highlighted. Most importantly, the lower protective capabilities of a homemade mask should be emphasized so that unnecessary risks are not taken.
In conclusion, although wearing a mask could be beneficial when the wearer is properly trained on how to use it and adheres to all other mask etiquettes, there are other measures available to protect against spreading the virus. Wash your hands, do not touch your face, and practice physical distancing.
And in other news: A porcupine has been appointed "Quality Control Manager" in a condom factory.
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By the way, those fetishised emotional reactions have been re-labeled by the left as "compassion".
I sometimes wonder if the folk proudest of their compassion spent their childhoods huddled in a corner afraid of the word and as adults finally found a way to reframe their weakness as a strength.
wrote on 14 May 2020, 15:38 last edited by@Horace said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
By the way, those fetishised emotional reactions have been re-labeled by the left as "compassion".
I sometimes wonder if the folk proudest of their compassion spent their childhoods huddled in a corner afraid of the word and as adults finally found a way to reframe their weakness as a strength.
Ever notice you have a childhood trauma theory for anyone who disagrees with you? Trump, politics, virus response, you name it. There's the Horace view and the view of the damaged people.
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wrote on 14 May 2020, 15:40 last edited by
No, I didn't notice that I talk much about the childhoods of people who disagree with me.
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wrote on 14 May 2020, 16:15 last edited by Doctor Phibes
Let's all just be thankful that pop and amateur psychology is a lot more common than pop and amateur civil engineering.
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By the way, those fetishised emotional reactions have been re-labeled by the left as "compassion".
I sometimes wonder if the folk proudest of their compassion spent their childhoods huddled in a corner afraid of the word and as adults finally found a way to reframe their weakness as a strength.
wrote on 14 May 2020, 17:21 last edited byWe will see who is wearing masks and who is not wearing masks as things open up. It will be super interesting to see where the problems really are. I hope all people who are not wearing masks are being covered and not just media select audiences.
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Q. What's the difference between cloth masks and medical masks, such as an N95 mask?
A. The idea behind an N95 mask is it has a filtering ability down to, and actually below, the size of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. So the coronavirus is about 0.12 microns in diameter and N95 (masks) protect down to 0.1 microns, with 95% efficiency, which is where it gets its name.
We don't want the public to think that the recommendation is for medical masking. That would be detrimental to us as a society, health care providers and patients who are sick with the disease need those masks.
Many risks associated with cloth masks
Cloth masks are commonly used in developing countries and many non-standard practices about their cleaning and reuse have evolved. Most studies about cloth masks were conducted before the development of disposable masks. The penetration through cloth is reported to be high. In one study, it was found that 40-90% of particles are able to penetrate cloth masks.
Cloth masks let through more particles
A large prospective RCT study (MacIntyre et al., 2015) showed that moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks, and poor filtration may even result in increased risk of infection. They showed that cloth masks resulted in significantly higher rates of infection than medical masks, and performed worse than the controls.
Cloth masks resulted in higher infection rates
The virus may survive on the surface of the cloth masks. Consequently, self-contamination through repeated use and improper doffing is possible (e.g. contaminated cloth mask may transfer pathogen from the mask to the bare hands of the wearer).
Cloth masks facilitate self-contamination
Although any material may provide a physical barrier to an infection, if it does not fit well around the nose and mouth, or the material allows infectious particles to freely pass through it, then it will be of no benefit and also unsafe.
For those who wear a mask for necessity, such as healthcare workers, regular training and fit testing must be emphasized. For those who choose to wear a homemade mask, the requirements of cleaning and changing the mask should be highlighted. Most importantly, the lower protective capabilities of a homemade mask should be emphasized so that unnecessary risks are not taken.
In conclusion, although wearing a mask could be beneficial when the wearer is properly trained on how to use it and adheres to all other mask etiquettes, there are other measures available to protect against spreading the virus. Wash your hands, do not touch your face, and practice physical distancing.
And in other news: A porcupine has been appointed "Quality Control Manager" in a condom factory.
wrote on 14 May 2020, 17:51 last edited by@Improviso The point of my wearing a cloth mask is not to protect me from you but to protect you from me. While they aren't that great at keeping virus particles out, they are pretty good at keeping virus aerosols in...
The Brad
