The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.
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@Loki said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
How big is the group that won’t wear masks? Is it KKK or Antifa sized?
How big it gets I think will depend on right wing media. Will they cover them as freedom fighters or kooks?
@jon-nyc said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
@Loki said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
How big is the group that won’t wear masks? Is it KKK or Antifa sized?
How big it gets I think will depend on right wing media. Will they cover them as freedom fighters or kooks?
Maybe the left wing media will cover them as well organized forces subverting our American institutions, just like they cover Nazis and the KKK.
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At what point will it be OK to not wear masks?
When nobody in the whole world has the COVID-19?
When fewer than a million Americans have it?
When 91 percent of everyone in the USA has received the vaccine?
When we get tired of masks?
When a democrat is elected president?
Without some sort of measurement I don't see how wearing or not wearing the mask can be right or wrong. This is just a bunch of virtuous emotional outbursts.
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@Copper said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
Without some sort of measurement I don't see how wearing or not wearing the mask can be right or wrong. This is just a bunch of virtuous emotional outbursts.
Yes the modern left has successfully fetishised the idea of having strong emotional reactions to things, of course as long as they're the correct things to have strong emotional reactions to. I'm pretty sure it goes against every historical precept of a stable civilization, to be encouraging people to go around looking for stuff to flip out over.
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By the way, those fetishised emotional reactions have been re-labeled by the left as "compassion".
I sometimes wonder if the folk proudest of their compassion spent their childhoods huddled in a corner afraid of the word and as adults finally found a way to reframe their weakness as a strength.
Education is extremely important.
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Q. What's the difference between cloth masks and medical masks, such as an N95 mask?
A. The idea behind an N95 mask is it has a filtering ability down to, and actually below, the size of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. So the coronavirus is about 0.12 microns in diameter and N95 (masks) protect down to 0.1 microns, with 95% efficiency, which is where it gets its name.
We don't want the public to think that the recommendation is for medical masking. That would be detrimental to us as a society, health care providers and patients who are sick with the disease need those masks.
Many risks associated with cloth masks
Cloth masks are commonly used in developing countries and many non-standard practices about their cleaning and reuse have evolved. Most studies about cloth masks were conducted before the development of disposable masks. The penetration through cloth is reported to be high. In one study, it was found that 40-90% of particles are able to penetrate cloth masks.
Cloth masks let through more particles
A large prospective RCT study (MacIntyre et al., 2015) showed that moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks, and poor filtration may even result in increased risk of infection. They showed that cloth masks resulted in significantly higher rates of infection than medical masks, and performed worse than the controls.
Cloth masks resulted in higher infection rates
The virus may survive on the surface of the cloth masks. Consequently, self-contamination through repeated use and improper doffing is possible (e.g. contaminated cloth mask may transfer pathogen from the mask to the bare hands of the wearer).
Cloth masks facilitate self-contamination
Although any material may provide a physical barrier to an infection, if it does not fit well around the nose and mouth, or the material allows infectious particles to freely pass through it, then it will be of no benefit and also unsafe.
For those who wear a mask for necessity, such as healthcare workers, regular training and fit testing must be emphasized. For those who choose to wear a homemade mask, the requirements of cleaning and changing the mask should be highlighted. Most importantly, the lower protective capabilities of a homemade mask should be emphasized so that unnecessary risks are not taken.
In conclusion, although wearing a mask could be beneficial when the wearer is properly trained on how to use it and adheres to all other mask etiquettes, there are other measures available to protect against spreading the virus. Wash your hands, do not touch your face, and practice physical distancing.
And in other news: A porcupine has been appointed "Quality Control Manager" in a condom factory.
We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run, there's still time to change the road you're on. -
By the way, those fetishised emotional reactions have been re-labeled by the left as "compassion".
I sometimes wonder if the folk proudest of their compassion spent their childhoods huddled in a corner afraid of the word and as adults finally found a way to reframe their weakness as a strength.
@Horace said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
By the way, those fetishised emotional reactions have been re-labeled by the left as "compassion".
I sometimes wonder if the folk proudest of their compassion spent their childhoods huddled in a corner afraid of the word and as adults finally found a way to reframe their weakness as a strength.
Ever notice you have a childhood trauma theory for anyone who disagrees with you? Trump, politics, virus response, you name it. There's the Horace view and the view of the damaged people.
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Let's all just be thankful that pop and amateur psychology is a lot more common than pop and amateur civil engineering.
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By the way, those fetishised emotional reactions have been re-labeled by the left as "compassion".
I sometimes wonder if the folk proudest of their compassion spent their childhoods huddled in a corner afraid of the word and as adults finally found a way to reframe their weakness as a strength.
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Q. What's the difference between cloth masks and medical masks, such as an N95 mask?
A. The idea behind an N95 mask is it has a filtering ability down to, and actually below, the size of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. So the coronavirus is about 0.12 microns in diameter and N95 (masks) protect down to 0.1 microns, with 95% efficiency, which is where it gets its name.
We don't want the public to think that the recommendation is for medical masking. That would be detrimental to us as a society, health care providers and patients who are sick with the disease need those masks.
Many risks associated with cloth masks
Cloth masks are commonly used in developing countries and many non-standard practices about their cleaning and reuse have evolved. Most studies about cloth masks were conducted before the development of disposable masks. The penetration through cloth is reported to be high. In one study, it was found that 40-90% of particles are able to penetrate cloth masks.
Cloth masks let through more particles
A large prospective RCT study (MacIntyre et al., 2015) showed that moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks, and poor filtration may even result in increased risk of infection. They showed that cloth masks resulted in significantly higher rates of infection than medical masks, and performed worse than the controls.
Cloth masks resulted in higher infection rates
The virus may survive on the surface of the cloth masks. Consequently, self-contamination through repeated use and improper doffing is possible (e.g. contaminated cloth mask may transfer pathogen from the mask to the bare hands of the wearer).
Cloth masks facilitate self-contamination
Although any material may provide a physical barrier to an infection, if it does not fit well around the nose and mouth, or the material allows infectious particles to freely pass through it, then it will be of no benefit and also unsafe.
For those who wear a mask for necessity, such as healthcare workers, regular training and fit testing must be emphasized. For those who choose to wear a homemade mask, the requirements of cleaning and changing the mask should be highlighted. Most importantly, the lower protective capabilities of a homemade mask should be emphasized so that unnecessary risks are not taken.
In conclusion, although wearing a mask could be beneficial when the wearer is properly trained on how to use it and adheres to all other mask etiquettes, there are other measures available to protect against spreading the virus. Wash your hands, do not touch your face, and practice physical distancing.
And in other news: A porcupine has been appointed "Quality Control Manager" in a condom factory.
@Improviso The point of my wearing a cloth mask is not to protect me from you but to protect you from me. While they aren't that great at keeping virus particles out, they are pretty good at keeping virus aerosols in...
The Brad
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You would expect something like this:
But instead we have something like this:
Possible reasons explored here.
https://thebulwark.com/the-curious-case-of-the-people-who-want-to-reopen-america-but-not-wear-masks/
@jon-nyc said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
There's so much wrong with this Venn diagram that this guy really shouldn't speculate about other people being stupid.
The labels are wrong. The overlap interpretation/size interpretation is wrong. A Venn diagram doesn't show how much two sets overlap. It only shows whether they overlap at all.
How is the orange area different from the dark green area? They are both "open and don't wear mask". This is just stupid.
Leaving the silly diagram aside, the guy missed the most obvious explanation: Those who want to open things and not wear a mask either consider the virus to be a smaller threat than the author does, or think that masks won't help much in the long term, or both.
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@Improviso The point of my wearing a cloth mask is not to protect me from you but to protect you from me. While they aren't that great at keeping virus particles out, they are pretty good at keeping virus aerosols in...
@LuFins-Dad said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
@Improviso The point of my wearing a cloth mask is not to protect me from you but to protect you from me. While they aren't that great at keeping virus particles out, they are pretty good at keeping virus aerosols in...
Hence the need for the other folks to wear theirs.
I haven't been out much, but the few times I have, not many people here are wearing masks. Perhaps that will change over time. At least people have their hand sanitizers and disinfectants that they hoarded from the stores. Some won't wear a mask, and others want to hoard the cleansers.
I also think that in areas that have not been hit hard yet, people consider themselves not at any risk of infection. They think it won't happen here. I wish they were right, but it's only a few miles away, lots of it. It's only a matter of time.
Whenever I see someone with obvious comorbidities who's not wearing a mask and not concerned about social distancing, I wonder if i'll see them alive again in a couple months, or if I'll recognize them in the obituaries. Hubby and I have a dark humor game. We see someone who fits that last description, and we'll note, "That one's a goner."
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@Improviso The point of my wearing a cloth mask is not to protect me from you but to protect you from me. While they aren't that great at keeping virus particles out, they are pretty good at keeping virus aerosols in...
@LuFins-Dad said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
@Improviso The point of my wearing a cloth mask is not to protect me from you but to protect you from me. While they aren't that great at keeping virus particles out, they are pretty good at keeping virus aerosols in...
I have no problem with that. It's your choice to wear a mask. Good on you for being so altruistic.
I'm not ragging anyone for wearing a mask, if that's their choice. And I think most people say they do it for the same reason as you do. To protect others.
My point was, particularly with regards to homemade masks, I get the feeling it's more of a placebo effect on the general population. It makes people feel like they are actively participating in preventing the spread.
As was noted in my previous post above, it may cause the wearer more problems than it solves.
Wash your hands, do not touch your face, and practice physical distancing.
That may be better advice in the long run than a feel good position of donning a mask.
But I understand your point. I'm getting the same thing from my daughter.
As of this moment, 955 people have died in Virginia. Over 500 of those were people in nursing homes. In a state with over 8.5 million people, I'd say my risk of dying from covid are pretty low, even IF I contract the virus. Odds are that I'll recover.
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@LuFins-Dad said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
@Improviso The point of my wearing a cloth mask is not to protect me from you but to protect you from me. While they aren't that great at keeping virus particles out, they are pretty good at keeping virus aerosols in...
Hence the need for the other folks to wear theirs.
I haven't been out much, but the few times I have, not many people here are wearing masks. Perhaps that will change over time. At least people have their hand sanitizers and disinfectants that they hoarded from the stores. Some won't wear a mask, and others want to hoard the cleansers.
I also think that in areas that have not been hit hard yet, people consider themselves not at any risk of infection. They think it won't happen here. I wish they were right, but it's only a few miles away, lots of it. It's only a matter of time.
Whenever I see someone with obvious comorbidities who's not wearing a mask and not concerned about social distancing, I wonder if i'll see them alive again in a couple months, or if I'll recognize them in the obituaries. Hubby and I have a dark humor game. We see someone who fits that last description, and we'll note, "That one's a goner."
@brenda said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
I also think that in areas that have not been hit hard yet, people consider themselves not at any risk of infection.
This would be me, Brenda. My county has a total of 5 cases (no deaths). 4 or those were over a month ago. Only 1 case in the last 30 days.
If I lived in a different area with more problems, I might not be so cavalier about it. And certainly not making any judgements about people who do live in those areas.
We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run, there's still time to change the road you're on. -
@brenda said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
I also think that in areas that have not been hit hard yet, people consider themselves not at any risk of infection.
This would be me, Brenda. My county has a total of 5 cases (no deaths). 4 or those were over a month ago. Only 1 case in the last 30 days.
If I lived in a different area with more problems, I might not be so cavalier about it. And certainly not making any judgements about people who do live in those areas.
@Improviso said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
@brenda said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
I also think that in areas that have not been hit hard yet, people consider themselves not at any risk of infection.
This would be me, Brenda. My county has a total of 5 cases (no deaths). 4 or those were over a month ago. Only 1 case in the last 30 days.
If I lived in a different area with more problems, I might not be so cavalier about it. And certainly not making any judgements about people who do live in those areas.
It'll be two weeks between when you're at risk in your area, and when you'll know. And it's older people who are most at risk.
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@Improviso said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
@brenda said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
I also think that in areas that have not been hit hard yet, people consider themselves not at any risk of infection.
This would be me, Brenda. My county has a total of 5 cases (no deaths). 4 or those were over a month ago. Only 1 case in the last 30 days.
If I lived in a different area with more problems, I might not be so cavalier about it. And certainly not making any judgements about people who do live in those areas.
It'll be two weeks between when you're at risk in your area, and when you'll know. And it's older people who are most at risk.
@Aqua-Letifer said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
And it's older people who are most at risk.
It would seem to be older people who live in nursing homes, at least in Virginia.
Look... if I get it, I get it. But my personal risk assessment says to me that I'm probably NOT going to die from it.
We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run, there's still time to change the road you're on. -
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@brenda said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
I also think that in areas that have not been hit hard yet, people consider themselves not at any risk of infection.
This would be me, Brenda. My county has a total of 5 cases (no deaths). 4 or those were over a month ago. Only 1 case in the last 30 days.
If I lived in a different area with more problems, I might not be so cavalier about it. And certainly not making any judgements about people who do live in those areas.
@Improviso said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
@brenda said in The curious case of the people who want to reopen America but not wear masks.:
I also think that in areas that have not been hit hard yet, people consider themselves not at any risk of infection.
This would be me, Brenda. My county has a total of 5 cases (no deaths). 4 or those were over a month ago. Only 1 case in the last 30 days.
If I lived in a different area with more problems, I might not be so cavalier about it. And certainly not making any judgements about people who do live in those areas.
Only one case in 30 days? Woohoo! Another family and we are going in on a house rental in Port Haywood. We've got some other friends staying in Onemo at the same time. We wanted to be closer, but those rentals are getting snatched up by people in DC. Everybody wants to get out of here for a few weeks with everything going on.
Hey, does that covered area at Hole in the Wall on Gwynne count as outdoor seating? It should. Maybe we should get together for a beer while we're down there? You can meet Finley once his rash has cleared up...
