Did social media help kill the newspaper?
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wrote on 22 Aug 2021, 13:26 last edited by
I don't do Faceypage, but the wife does. If there is a wreck on the highway, everybody knows about it before the ambulance arrives. If there is a burglary, the community knows before the deputy 's car leaves the driveway. A society page or community events calendar isn't needed, as that kinda stuff is bandied about all day.
Was the rise of social media the final nail in the coffin of the local newspaper?
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wrote on 22 Aug 2021, 13:35 last edited by Catseye3
I don't know. Before social media, people still gossiped over the back fence, and newspapers did just fine. But the back fence community grew with social media, and I guess so did its power. It's one thing if your neighbor agrees with you, but if you can find 100 others to agree with you*, then you can see how papers were gradually weakened. So I guess yeah, at least to some degree.
A more interesting debate would be the causes of the decline of the press generally.
*Especially if the 100 are people that you know. That conveys legitimacy, even if not justifiable.
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I don't do Faceypage, but the wife does. If there is a wreck on the highway, everybody knows about it before the ambulance arrives. If there is a burglary, the community knows before the deputy 's car leaves the driveway. A society page or community events calendar isn't needed, as that kinda stuff is bandied about all day.
Was the rise of social media the final nail in the coffin of the local newspaper?
wrote on 22 Aug 2021, 13:50 last edited by@jolly said in Did social media help kill the newspaper?:
Was the rise of social media the final nail in the coffin of the local newspaper?
I open the full-sized paper on the table at breakfast. it just doesn't work as well on the phone or tablet.
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I don't do Faceypage, but the wife does. If there is a wreck on the highway, everybody knows about it before the ambulance arrives. If there is a burglary, the community knows before the deputy 's car leaves the driveway. A society page or community events calendar isn't needed, as that kinda stuff is bandied about all day.
Was the rise of social media the final nail in the coffin of the local newspaper?
wrote on 22 Aug 2021, 14:02 last edited by Aqua Letifer@jolly said in Did social media help kill the newspaper?:
Was the rise of social media the final nail in the coffin of the local newspaper?
Are you freaking trolling me right now? I mean, you are, right? You have to be.
Of course it was a massive contributor. Massive. But more generally it was distribution in the hands of the public, and the expectation that online content should be free.
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I don't know. Before social media, people still gossiped over the back fence, and newspapers did just fine. But the back fence community grew with social media, and I guess so did its power. It's one thing if your neighbor agrees with you, but if you can find 100 others to agree with you*, then you can see how papers were gradually weakened. So I guess yeah, at least to some degree.
A more interesting debate would be the causes of the decline of the press generally.
*Especially if the 100 are people that you know. That conveys legitimacy, even if not justifiable.
wrote on 22 Aug 2021, 14:04 last edited by@catseye3 said in Did social media help kill the newspaper?:
A more interesting debate would be the causes of the decline of the press generally.
Not really. It's about as transparent and self-explanatory as the decline of carriages,
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@catseye3 said in Did social media help kill the newspaper?:
A more interesting debate would be the causes of the decline of the press generally.
Not really. It's about as transparent and self-explanatory as the decline of carriages,
wrote on 22 Aug 2021, 14:17 last edited by Catseye3@aqua-letifer Your background gives you insight on this, of course. But Jolly was asking about local papers. The decline of the Podunk Gazette is one thing, but I'd be interested in having a better understanding of the decline of papers you'd think might have a better chance to stay strong, like WaPo and NYT and WSJ and, for all I know, overseas ones like London Times or Figaro. Did they not have the staying power?
To what degree did readers of the more "serious" newspapers step away in favor of social media? Well, that's obvious, but why did they? What did they get from social that they weren't getting from say WSJ?
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@aqua-letifer Your background gives you insight on this, of course. But Jolly was asking about local papers. The decline of the Podunk Gazette is one thing, but I'd be interested in having a better understanding of the decline of papers you'd think might have a better chance to stay strong, like WaPo and NYT and WSJ and, for all I know, overseas ones like London Times or Figaro. Did they not have the staying power?
To what degree did readers of the more "serious" newspapers step away in favor of social media? Well, that's obvious, but why did they? What did they get from social that they weren't getting from say WSJ?
wrote on 22 Aug 2021, 14:39 last edited by@catseye3 said in Did social media help kill the newspaper?:
What did they get from social that they weren't getting from say WSJ?
Dopamine.
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@catseye3 said in Did social media help kill the newspaper?:
What did they get from social that they weren't getting from say WSJ?
Dopamine.
wrote on 22 Aug 2021, 14:42 last edited by@aqua-letifer said in Did social media help kill the newspaper?:
Dopamine.
Then we really are screwed.
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@aqua-letifer said in Did social media help kill the newspaper?:
Dopamine.
Then we really are screwed.
wrote on 22 Aug 2021, 14:43 last edited by@catseye3 said in Did social media help kill the newspaper?:
@aqua-letifer said in Did social media help kill the newspaper?:
Dopamine.
Then we really are screwed.
It's how those platforms were designed. I mean that literally.
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wrote on 22 Aug 2021, 15:47 last edited by Mik
Absolutely correct. They are built much like a slot machine, with roughly the same expectation of reward if you just look at the next thing.
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wrote on 22 Aug 2021, 16:00 last edited by Copper
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wrote on 22 Aug 2021, 16:01 last edited by
But televised news and news radio has been “free”for decades. There is more to the story…
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Absolutely correct. They are built much like a slot machine, with roughly the same expectation of reward if you just look at the next thing.
wrote on 22 Aug 2021, 17:15 last edited by Catseye3@mik said in Did social media help kill the newspaper?:
They are built much like a slot machine, with roughly the same expectation of reward if you just look at the next thing.
But what about smart people, like the people who read WSJ? People like . . .
Um.
Well, like . . .
Gimme a minute.
Okay, I get your point.
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But televised news and news radio has been “free”for decades. There is more to the story…
wrote on 22 Aug 2021, 17:24 last edited by Aqua Letifer@lufins-dad said in Did social media help kill the newspaper?:
But televised news and news radio has been “free”for decades. There is more to the story…
But before the internet, the average person couldn't just start their own news network or radio show. Distribution was extremely expensive, which meant that there were only so many sources. Competition was severely limited.
Now, we live in a world in which you could start your own YouTube channel. And because these platforms aren't limited to genre, you in your house, with a camera and computer, can provide direct competition to CNN.
As a concrete example, CNN has about 15 million followers on Instagram. The Rock has 17 times as many followers. It's 2021. An ex-wrestler is curruently destroying a national news network in terms of today’s definition of “ratings.”
tl;dr:
- You get a dopamine kick from being on social media. One you don't get by watching the news. News networks are trying to remain competitive by shilling outrage, but it's still a losing battle. People would rather be on the 'gram than watch CNN.
- So if you're stuck with social media, then you're going to compete with everyone else on the platform. And we're social creatures. We gravitate toward people we think we like, not news networks. So, news networks lose to personalities.
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@lufins-dad said in Did social media help kill the newspaper?:
But televised news and news radio has been “free”for decades. There is more to the story…
But before the internet, the average person couldn't just start their own news network or radio show. Distribution was extremely expensive, which meant that there were only so many sources. Competition was severely limited.
Now, we live in a world in which you could start your own YouTube channel. And because these platforms aren't limited to genre, you in your house, with a camera and computer, can provide direct competition to CNN.
As a concrete example, CNN has about 15 million followers on Instagram. The Rock has 17 times as many followers. It's 2021. An ex-wrestler is curruently destroying a national news network in terms of today’s definition of “ratings.”
tl;dr:
- You get a dopamine kick from being on social media. One you don't get by watching the news. News networks are trying to remain competitive by shilling outrage, but it's still a losing battle. People would rather be on the 'gram than watch CNN.
- So if you're stuck with social media, then you're going to compete with everyone else on the platform. And we're social creatures. We gravitate toward people we think we like, not news networks. So, news networks lose to personalities.
wrote on 22 Aug 2021, 17:35 last edited by@aqua-letifer said in Did social media help kill the newspaper?:
As a concrete example, CNN has about 15 million followers on Instagram. The Rock has 17 times as many followers. It's 2021. An ex-wrestler is curruently destroying a national news network in terms of today’s definition of “ratings.”
That explains everything, doesn't it?
A thought experiment for Aqua (or anybody): Can you envision a set of conditions where good newspapers regain a market? What would need to happen?
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@jolly said in Did social media help kill the newspaper?:
Was the rise of social media the final nail in the coffin of the local newspaper?
Are you freaking trolling me right now? I mean, you are, right? You have to be.
Of course it was a massive contributor. Massive. But more generally it was distribution in the hands of the public, and the expectation that online content should be free.
wrote on 22 Aug 2021, 17:38 last edited by@aqua-letifer said in Did social media help kill the newspaper?:
But more generally it was distribution in the hands of the public, and the expectation that online content should be free.
This. Plus the internet making all news real-time, defeating the whole purpose of a “news paper”.
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@aqua-letifer said in Did social media help kill the newspaper?:
As a concrete example, CNN has about 15 million followers on Instagram. The Rock has 17 times as many followers. It's 2021. An ex-wrestler is curruently destroying a national news network in terms of today’s definition of “ratings.”
That explains everything, doesn't it?
A thought experiment for Aqua (or anybody): Can you envision a set of conditions where good newspapers regain a market? What would need to happen?
wrote on 22 Aug 2021, 17:50 last edited by Aqua Letifer@catseye3 said in Did social media help kill the newspaper?:
A thought experiment for Aqua (or anybody): Can you envision a set of conditions where good newspapers regain a market? What would need to happen?
At a previous job, I hung out with one of my editors most mornings, and we'd kick this around pretty regularly. You've got to be careful about what you come up with, because the solution has to be pragmatic or you're wasting your time. It does no good to sit around, point fingers and dictate to the world how it should be.
The problems are these:
- How do you win the game of attention? You have to get people to care more about town council meetings than Home Depot sales, Tik Tok remixes, and what Dwayne Johnson is doing that day. And like 89th said, you have to get people to care more about being right than being first. Good luck.
- How do you make money? Even if you win the attention game, how do you monetize? Ads are completely out, they're a dead revenue model. Subscriptions are a very hard uphill battle if you're starting from scratch.
Honestly, I think we need to play within the confines of the game everyone's already playing. The "just the facts, ma'am" horseshit is dead and gone. Local news needs to be delivered by personalities that are fun to follow. Followers need to establish parasocial relationships with those giving them their local news.
That's the best I can come up with. I hate it and it seems like a shit solution, but at least you can say it hasn't yet been tried.
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wrote on 22 Aug 2021, 18:08 last edited by Catseye3
I'm thinking backlash.
75 years from now, when the so-called "news" venues are so clogged with garbage that real actual news is nearly invisible in the mass of dumbness and what there is of it is crap, somebody will happen upon a website that features the story of the history of the Chicago Tribune, and they're like, "Hey! Look at this! Look how clean they were in those days!" Somebody else says, "Wow, that is so cool! And look, they didn't even print comments!" Word spreads, and a descendent of Bill Gates says, "Look, I've got money. Let's put an edition of this bad boy on the street and see what happens!"
The crowd goes mad! The paper sells out in an hour! Second, third and fourth editions are published, and it's still not enough! Heard on the street: "No comments! No fucking comments! Why did it take us so long to do this???"
Here's where my dream gets really silly. Social message boards become . . . like . . . completely empty . . . echoing silence.
Okay, I'm off the rails.
Sigh.