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If only they could all be as honest as Donald Trump, right Jolly?
@doctor-phibes said in 10%:
If only they could all be as honest as Donald Trump, right Jolly?
Listen, you dumb, drunken sheep fucker...I gave you a pretty good insight into why some things are happening in fly-over country. And you come in with a powerful and pithy statement.
Tell ya what you do...Spread some peanut butter on your balls and call the dog in to lick it off, and then piss off, mate. That way, we'll both be happy.
Help me, to help you.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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The point is this: In a time of trouble, either the populace has absolute trust in the government or not. There is a large segment of the population that has mistrust in the government, ranging from a mild case to where people can't even stand the goddamn mailman.
I understand these are simple people. People not as sophisticated as Mr. Obama or even some of the people on this board. These people seem to think if somebody lies about something important, they won't hesitate to lie about something else important.
These poor dumb bastards have been told to mask...No, masks don't help...Mask or die...Oh, and since we don't have proper masks, just use an absolutely useless bandana. They were told if they locked down, they'd slow the spread, then they were told they didn't lock down long enough. They've watched their children lose a year of school, their neighbors lose their businesses, and then they watched the virus come right back. They've been told that when 60% or more of the population is vaccinated and/or had natural immunity, we would achieve herd immunity, knowing full damn well that variants would arise and herd immunity was silliness. They've been told if they did take the vaccine, they would be protected from COVID. I guess they didn't read the fine print about the effectiveness of the vaccine against any other variants. Sure, you can give them the song and dance about cross-effectiveness between strains now, but nobody knew bupkiss just a few months ago. And shucks, even today they turn on the tv and there is Dr. Falsi, spouting out some bullshit about effective vaccine levels and societal immunity, when by now, people know he's pulling this stuff out of his ass.
In effect, they know the government is/has lied to them. Even something as simple as the breakthrough infection hospitalization rate. They were told less than 1%. The poor bastards can actually read in the hinterlands and some even have internet access. They see the breakthrough and hospitalization rate in Israel and in the U.K. And they see it ain't less than 1%. Then they turn around, look at what's going on in areas within their own country and the numbers simply do not jibe.
Yet, you expect these people to trust the government about vaccine effectiveness, long term complications and a return to normalcy? And you wonder why you see wide swaths of vaccine hesitancy? Jyst don't lie to people. That's why that 1% vs. 10% figure is important.
I sometimes marvel at how many people have actually taken the jab, fer chrissakes...
The point is this: In a time of trouble, either the populace has absolute trust in the government or not. …
So sayeth he who also stated, on many occasions, “all politicians lie all the time.”
No, “absolute trust” is bullshit. That makes a cult, not a healthy demoracy.
Jyst don't lie to people.
Yeah, that why public accounting like this is important.
We are dealing with mutations and large amounts of data that takes time to collect, analyze, and verify. If it takes the CDC a few weeks to realize the true value is closer to “10%” than to “1%”, that’s not a basis for any apologia for vaccine hesitancy.
Dialing into the correct value between “1%” and “10%” I s important, but not as important as actually acknowledging that even “10%” is very good — more than good enough to stop pedaling rhetorics that give others excuses to continue to be vaccine hesitant.
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A few minor quibbles with @Jolly s post, but overall he nailed it. The one thing I would change is some of these folk aren’t so simple…
@89th commented along the lines of “so what if it’s 10% instead of 1%. 10% is great!” and I agree! 10% of the hospitalizations is great! So why are they misleading the public? Well, we both know why. They want to manipulate the truth hoping the false info will get a few more needles in the arm. That’s where I have huge fucking problems.
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@doctor-phibes said in 10%:
If only they could all be as honest as Donald Trump, right Jolly?
Listen, you dumb, drunken sheep fucker...I gave you a pretty good insight into why some things are happening in fly-over country. And you come in with a powerful and pithy statement.
Tell ya what you do...Spread some peanut butter on your balls and call the dog in to lick it off, and then piss off, mate. That way, we'll both be happy.
Help me, to help you.
@doctor-phibes said in 10%:
If only they could all be as honest as Donald Trump, right Jolly?
Listen, you dumb, drunken sheep fucker...I gave you a pretty good insight into why some things are happening in fly-over country. And you come in with a powerful and pithy statement.
Tell ya what you do...Spread some peanut butter on your balls and call the dog in to lick it off, and then piss off, mate. That way, we'll both be happy.
Help me, to help you.
OK, fair enough
I do take your point about lack of trust, however it seems to me that partisanship is also part of it, hence my powerful and pithy statement,
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I agree that the regulatory “bank shots” are a bad idea and counterproductive in the end.
And infantilizing.
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I agree that the regulatory “bank shots” are a bad idea and counterproductive in the end.
And infantilizing.
What do you see as the best path?
I suppose it depends on how one measures the cost of dishonesty and erosion of public trust and respect, against the value of manipulating innumerate or credulous vaccine-hesitant folk into getting vaccinated. It's a difficult question to answer, but there is always something to be said for transparent honesty in messaging. Actually, the value of transparent honesty in messaging is about the only unambiguous thing in the whole equation. But the temptation to bend the truth, in the hopes it'll get more people vaccinated, is always there...
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But Truth is essential.
Look at the Delta variant and children. As people recognize that children can get the disease, they start to rethink vaccination ages and they rethink their own status. If TPTB hadn't blown their truth wad on semi-speculation, people would believe them when they said that as many as 20% of Delta infections in some places affected people less than 18 years-old.
That's just one example.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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I think those representing the vaccine hesitant have to define the go forward plan. I do not believe I have seen that.
I think those representing the vaccine hesitant have to define the go forward plan. I do not believe I have seen that.
You mean, how to craftily craft messaging that will convince them? How about not setting an impossible task and sacrificing honesty in pursuit of it, while still inevitably failing? The go forward plan that will accomplish your goal does not exist.
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I think those representing the vaccine hesitant have to define the go forward plan. I do not believe I have seen that.
You mean, how to craftily craft messaging that will convince them? How about not setting an impossible task and sacrificing honesty in pursuit of it, while still inevitably failing? The go forward plan that will accomplish your goal does not exist.
I think those representing the vaccine hesitant have to define the go forward plan. I do not believe I have seen that.
You mean, how to craftily craft messaging that will convince them? How about not setting an impossible task and sacrificing honesty in pursuit of it, while still inevitably failing? The go forward plan that will accomplish your goal does not exist.
Is there an alternate plan anywhere I can look at?
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I think those representing the vaccine hesitant have to define the go forward plan. I do not believe I have seen that.
You mean, how to craftily craft messaging that will convince them? How about not setting an impossible task and sacrificing honesty in pursuit of it, while still inevitably failing? The go forward plan that will accomplish your goal does not exist.
Is there an alternate plan anywhere I can look at?
I think those representing the vaccine hesitant have to define the go forward plan. I do not believe I have seen that.
You mean, how to craftily craft messaging that will convince them? How about not setting an impossible task and sacrificing honesty in pursuit of it, while still inevitably failing? The go forward plan that will accomplish your goal does not exist.
Is there an alternate plan anywhere I can look at?
Sure, here you are:
- Say certain words
- ???
- 100% of people will be vaccinated
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I think those representing the vaccine hesitant have to define the go forward plan. I do not believe I have seen that.
You mean, how to craftily craft messaging that will convince them? How about not setting an impossible task and sacrificing honesty in pursuit of it, while still inevitably failing? The go forward plan that will accomplish your goal does not exist.
Is there an alternate plan anywhere I can look at?
Sure, here you are:
- Say certain words
- ???
- 100% of people will be vaccinated
I think those representing the vaccine hesitant have to define the go forward plan. I do not believe I have seen that.
You mean, how to craftily craft messaging that will convince them? How about not setting an impossible task and sacrificing honesty in pursuit of it, while still inevitably failing? The go forward plan that will accomplish your goal does not exist.
Is there an alternate plan anywhere I can look at?
Sure, here you are:
- Say certain words
- ???
- 100% of people will be vaccinated
Ok. I think we are at a dead end. I won’t pursue.
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I think those representing the vaccine hesitant have to define the go forward plan. I do not believe I have seen that.
You mean, how to craftily craft messaging that will convince them? How about not setting an impossible task and sacrificing honesty in pursuit of it, while still inevitably failing? The go forward plan that will accomplish your goal does not exist.
Is there an alternate plan anywhere I can look at?
Sure, here you are:
- Say certain words
- ???
- 100% of people will be vaccinated
Ok. I think we are at a dead end. I won’t pursue.
I think those representing the vaccine hesitant have to define the go forward plan. I do not believe I have seen that.
You mean, how to craftily craft messaging that will convince them? How about not setting an impossible task and sacrificing honesty in pursuit of it, while still inevitably failing? The go forward plan that will accomplish your goal does not exist.
Is there an alternate plan anywhere I can look at?
Sure, here you are:
- Say certain words
- ???
- 100% of people will be vaccinated
Ok. I think we are at a dead end. I won’t pursue.
I very clearly stated that a plan to achieve your goal does not and can not exist. From there, you’re looking at a discussion of how to improve the current plan. Some people are advocating for more honesty in messaging. You’re advocating for a plan to get us to 100% vaccination, and asking for people to point you to such a plan.
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I think those representing the vaccine hesitant have to define the go forward plan. I do not believe I have seen that.
You mean, how to craftily craft messaging that will convince them? How about not setting an impossible task and sacrificing honesty in pursuit of it, while still inevitably failing? The go forward plan that will accomplish your goal does not exist.
Is there an alternate plan anywhere I can look at?
Sure, here you are:
- Say certain words
- ???
- 100% of people will be vaccinated
Ok. I think we are at a dead end. I won’t pursue.
I very clearly stated that a plan to achieve your goal does not and can not exist. From there, you’re looking at a discussion of how to improve the current plan. Some people are advocating for more honesty in messaging. You’re advocating for a plan to get us to 100% vaccination, and asking for people to point you to such a plan.
I think those representing the vaccine hesitant have to define the go forward plan. I do not believe I have seen that.
You mean, how to craftily craft messaging that will convince them? How about not setting an impossible task and sacrificing honesty in pursuit of it, while still inevitably failing? The go forward plan that will accomplish your goal does not exist.
Is there an alternate plan anywhere I can look at?
Sure, here you are:
- Say certain words
- ???
- 100% of people will be vaccinated
Ok. I think we are at a dead end. I won’t pursue.
I very clearly stated that a plan to achieve your goal does not and can not exist. From there, you’re looking at a discussion of how to improve the current plan. Some people are advocating for
more honesty in messaging. You’re advocating for a plan to get us to 100% vaccination, and asking for people to point you to such a plan.
I apologize for that impression. A plan could be to stop the vaccinations and do something different, it could be to offer vaccines and a treatment option, it could be some other hybrid solution.
I don’t want to put words in your or anyone else mouth and I won’t presuppose what you are thinking.
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I think those representing the vaccine hesitant have to define the go forward plan. I do not believe I have seen that.
You mean, how to craftily craft messaging that will convince them? How about not setting an impossible task and sacrificing honesty in pursuit of it, while still inevitably failing? The go forward plan that will accomplish your goal does not exist.
Is there an alternate plan anywhere I can look at?
Sure, here you are:
- Say certain words
- ???
- 100% of people will be vaccinated
Ok. I think we are at a dead end. I won’t pursue.
I very clearly stated that a plan to achieve your goal does not and can not exist. From there, you’re looking at a discussion of how to improve the current plan. Some people are advocating for
more honesty in messaging. You’re advocating for a plan to get us to 100% vaccination, and asking for people to point you to such a plan.
I apologize for that impression. A plan could be to stop the vaccinations and do something different, it could be to offer vaccines and a treatment option, it could be some other hybrid solution.
I don’t want to put words in your or anyone else mouth and I won’t presuppose what you are thinking.
I think those representing the vaccine hesitant have to define the go forward plan. I do not believe I have seen that.
You mean, how to craftily craft messaging that will convince them? How about not setting an impossible task and sacrificing honesty in pursuit of it, while still inevitably failing? The go forward plan that will accomplish your goal does not exist.
Is there an alternate plan anywhere I can look at?
Sure, here you are:
- Say certain words
- ???
- 100% of people will be vaccinated
Ok. I think we are at a dead end. I won’t pursue.
I very clearly stated that a plan to achieve your goal does not and can not exist. From there, you’re looking at a discussion of how to improve the current plan. Some people are advocating for
more honesty in messaging. You’re advocating for a plan to get us to 100% vaccination, and asking for people to point you to such a plan.
I apologize for that impression. A plan could be to stop the vaccinations and do something different, it could be to offer vaccines and a treatment option, it could be some other hybrid solution.
I don’t want to put words in your or anyone else mouth and I won’t presuppose what you are thinking.
Ok so, accept that more honesty from the leaders is a proposal of a plan that some people think will lead to more vaccination.
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The USA has been polio free for about 40 years, it took us about 25 years after the vaccine to get there.
The USA has been polio free for about 40 years, it took us about 25 years after the vaccine to get there.
Well, it only took a few years for the massive decline. After that it was waiting for the few remaining cases to fade away. The vaccine was introduced in 1955...
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