Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal
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wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 14:18 last edited by
Best line of the day, so far: We (the American people) traded mean tweets for gross incompetence.
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wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 14:21 last edited by kluurs
The tragedy of the good Afghan folks who supported us - and for the young women allowed education and career opportunities - what a rug to be pulled out from under them. The Taliban don't feel a need for compromise as they have both religious fervor and the power to implement the rules they want - a theocracy. Respect for individual liberty or a diversity of ideas - not so much a priority.
For all of our intelligence capabilities, it seems clear that we missed the mark by a long stretch in predicting the speed of the fall. Trump was criticized for his negotiations directly with the Taliban. I've not heard anything about this administration having direct contact with them. It would have been advantageous to negotiate a more orderly withdrawal - though it is certainly possible that we just gave them the middle finger.
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The tragedy of the good Afghan folks who supported us - and for the young women allowed education and career opportunities - what a rug to be pulled out from under them. The Taliban don't feel a need for compromise as they have both religious fervor and the power to implement the rules they want - a theocracy. Respect for individual liberty or a diversity of ideas - not so much a priority.
For all of our intelligence capabilities, it seems clear that we missed the mark by a long stretch in predicting the speed of the fall. Trump was criticized for his negotiations directly with the Taliban. I've not heard anything about this administration having direct contact with them. It would have been advantageous to negotiate a more orderly withdrawal - though it is certainly possible that we just gave them the middle finger.
wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 14:54 last edited by@kluurs said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
For all of our intelligence capabilities, it seems clear that we missed the mark by a long stretch
Again. Our "intelligence" community (and I say that with a huge dose of irony) looks like the Keystone Kops - but not as funny.
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wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 14:56 last edited by
@kluurs said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
The left has fun too...
We can play that game all day. How many Talibs were released in exchange for Bowe Bergdahl, five?
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wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 15:02 last edited by
@george-k said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@george-k said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
Not like Saigon at all.
Jesus...
All flights out of Kabul have been suspended because more people were on the outside of the plane than inside.
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@kluurs said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
The left has fun too...
We can play that game all day. How many Talibs were released in exchange for Bowe Bergdahl, five?
wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 15:16 last edited by Doctor Phibes@george-k said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@kluurs said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
The left has fun too...
We can play that game all day. How many Talibs were released in exchange for Bowe Bergdahl, five?
To be honest, I don't think this aspect should be a partisan issue. Trump broke with GOP philosophy in wanting to get out of foreign conflicts, and Biden's withdrawal is in-line with this. Letting people out of prison probably isn't the most important question - for every raging fanatic imprisoned, there's five more waiting in the wings to take over.
The real question about the current situation is the rather disastrous tactical implementation. Who on earth planned this cluster?
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wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 15:18 last edited by Jolly
The buck stops on Biden's desk.
I predict Blinken will be the fall guy.
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wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 15:20 last edited by Doctor Phibes
@jolly said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
The buck stops on Buddy's desk.
Yeah, I know that. This is disastrous for Biden, and he should be held accountable.
But who actually planned it?
The cynical part of me wonders whether he jumped so soon in the hope that it would all be forgotten by 2024 - not that he's likely to be running at that point.
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wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 15:35 last edited by
Doofusses taking selfies
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wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 15:39 last edited by
They gotta be feeling pretty smug
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wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 15:41 last edited by
They have always known we would eventually go away. Everybody else did.
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@george-k said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
Gotta wonder what our allies, the Pakistanis think of all this.
Haha... Pakistanis, our allies???
I wouldn't trust the Pakistanis any further than I could throw Oprah.
wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 15:42 last edited by@improviso said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@george-k said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
Gotta wonder what our allies, the Pakistanis think of all this.
Haha... Pakistanis, our allies???
I wouldn't trust the Pakistanis any further than I could throw Oprah.
Agreed. But the level of corruption and duplicity is endemic in the Middle East. 83 billion and 20 years to develop Afghan military, we now have a good sense of where the money went.
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I suspect he wanted to get it done as far from November 22 as possible.
I heard yesterday something that made sense to me from one of the ,military advisors over there. We built an army for a nation that doesn’t really exist, at least not as we know if. Afghanistan is fractious, tribal and the levers and centers of power are not that of a modern nation.
wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 16:51 last edited by@mik said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
I suspect he wanted to get it done as far from November 22 as possible.
I heard yesterday something that made sense to me from one of the ,military advisors over there. We built an army for a nation that doesn’t really exist, at least not as we know if. Afghanistan is fractious, tribal and the levers and centers of power are not that of a modern nation.
Yes - that rings true. There is zero cultural connection between the regular people living there and a modern, secular state.
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wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 17:04 last edited by
That's why you don't establish one. The people are not ready for it.
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wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 17:08 last edited by
They have their own particular pop culture. Funny how beliefs are completely defined by cultural programming.
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wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 17:30 last edited by
@jolly said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
That's why you don't establish one. The people are not ready for it.
How can we even begin to think about nation building when we have our own internecine wars going on?
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@jolly said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
That's why you don't establish one. The people are not ready for it.
How can we even begin to think about nation building when we have our own internecine wars going on?
wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 17:38 last edited by@loki said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@jolly said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
That's why you don't establish one. The people are not ready for it.
How can we even begin to think about nation building when we have our own internecine wars going on?
Because western cultural indoctrination is superior to theirs. Not that that makes it feasible to establish such a culture. But the superiority remains.
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wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 18:01 last edited by
At least we are respected internationally again.
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@loki said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@jolly said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
That's why you don't establish one. The people are not ready for it.
How can we even begin to think about nation building when we have our own internecine wars going on?
Because western cultural indoctrination is superior to theirs. Not that that makes it feasible to establish such a culture. But the superiority remains.
wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 18:10 last edited by@horace said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@loki said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
@jolly said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
That's why you don't establish one. The people are not ready for it.
How can we even begin to think about nation building when we have our own internecine wars going on?
Because western cultural indoctrination is superior to theirs. Not that that makes it feasible to establish such a culture. But the superiority remains.
And those inclined to cultural indoctrination will rely on soldiers who hail from their outgroup….how ironic.
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At least we are respected internationally again.
wrote on 16 Aug 2021, 18:10 last edited by@lufins-dad said in Biden "Forcefully" defends Afghan withdrawal:
At least we are respected internationally again.
lol
