Apple Inc.’s AirTag
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Don’t know how Apple does this exactly, but maybe you can get some idea about what is possible from a paper like this: https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/19/20/4466
Assuming you have access to large troves of academic research publications, search for “single channel ultra wide band direction finding.”
I kind of zeroed in on “single channel” because I don’t know how many UWB antennae Apple puts in an iPhone. So for the worst case I assume one antenna.
I further speculate that in spaces where there are multiple Apple devices present (iPhones, iPads, Macs, HomePods, etc.), when there are multiple such devices are UWB capable, Apple can treat them as a distributed antenna array and deploy location/directional finding algorithms that take advantage of multiple antennae. This can also partially answer the question of why using a centralized server.
@axtremus said in Apple Inc.’s AirTag:
Don’t know how Apple does this exactly, but maybe you can get some idea about what is possible from a paper like this: https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/19/20/4466
Assuming you have access to large troves of academic research publications, search for “single channel ultra wide band direction finding.”
I kind of zeroed in on “single channel” because I don’t know how many UWB antennae Apple puts in an iPhone. So for the worst case I assume one antenna.
I further speculate that in spaces where there are multiple Apple devices present (iPhones, iPads, Macs, HomePods, etc.), when there are multiple such devices are UWB capable, Apple can treat them as a distributed antenna array and deploy location/directional finding algorithms that take advantage of multiple antennae. This can also partially answer the question of why using a centralized server.
That's interesting.
The way I understand it is that the device, such as the AirTag, sends an impulse and then the receiver receives the impulse multiple times - once from the straight line path, then from reflections. The angle can then somehow be estimated from the strength and delays between the received signals? But I completely fail to understand how the "somehow" can work. How can you ever get a direction vector out of this?
In that particular paper, they seem to require measurements within a room (by robots or something) to get a kind of profile, that they can feed into a neural network for predicting direction from impulse responses.
But that's not how the AirTag can work, because obviously you won't use robots to get a profile of all the rooms you work in.
But the report mentions that other methods include the usage of multiple antennas and, according to the report, it seems to be standard to have more than one antenna in a device. I can see how that works with two antennas. Maybe that's how AirTag works?
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"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@george-k said in Apple Inc.’s AirTag:
@mark said in Apple Inc.’s AirTag:
I predict failure in the marketplace for this POS.
Tell that to the folks at Tile.
Do you own a Tile? Do you know people who do?
@mark said in Apple Inc.’s AirTag:
@george-k said in Apple Inc.’s AirTag:
@mark said in Apple Inc.’s AirTag:
I predict failure in the marketplace for this POS.
Tell that to the folks at Tile.
Do you own a Tile? Do you know people who do?
Ayup. I bought them for MFR who was continually misplacing her keys. She never really got the hang of using it. Technophobia.
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@george-k said in Apple Inc.’s AirTag:
Accessory:
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MX8A2AM/A/airtag-hermès-luggage-tag
$449?!?!?! I could buy the luggage and everything in it for less!
“I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill
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@george-k said in Apple Inc.’s AirTag:
Accessory:
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MX8A2AM/A/airtag-hermès-luggage-tag
If ever there was a proper usage for the term "lolwut", this is it.
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Looks like a fantastic product, thanks for posting about it, Ax. I'll get some for my mom and my wife and myself. But they're selling like hotcakes and not currently available from apple's website. Apparently the word is out about this extraordinarily useful product.
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One thing I want to use it for is to put one in each car so I can find my own car in a big parking lot after I shop. Not all sure if that will work, though. Apple, Inc. seems to have goofy rules about precision/directional finding not working unless you (your iPhone?) are "close enough "to a tag, and that if you (your iPhone?) move "far enough" away from the tag it might beep to help others be aware of unwanted tags. Apple so far has not tell you the thresholds for what constitute "close enough" or "far enough," and even then I am not sure those thresholds would work for the parking lot at a shopping mall/plaza use case.
Take Costco for example, the parking lot and the store itself are HUGE, so it's very likely I have to walk pretty far away from the store entrance and walk pretty far away from the car. Will the Apple AirTag work well in that scenario? For now, I am not confident that it will.
Hey @Horace, go do some user experience testing with AirTags in some big box store's parking lot and tell us how well the AirTag can help you find your car in the parking lot. Thanks!
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@george-k said in Apple Inc.’s AirTag:
Accessory:
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MX8A2AM/A/airtag-hermès-luggage-tag
$449?!?!?! I could buy the luggage and everything in it for less!
@mik said in Apple Inc.’s AirTag:
$449?!?!?! I could buy the luggage and everything in it for less!
Peasant:
https://www.hermes.com/us/en/product/apple-airtag-hermes-travel-tag-H0007941v3400/
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Would if someone was a stalker, and they stuck one of these on your car, or in your purse or something like that.
Would it track you and could someone follow you from that?
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One thing I want to use it for is to put one in each car so I can find my own car in a big parking lot after I shop. Not all sure if that will work, though. Apple, Inc. seems to have goofy rules about precision/directional finding not working unless you (your iPhone?) are "close enough "to a tag, and that if you (your iPhone?) move "far enough" away from the tag it might beep to help others be aware of unwanted tags. Apple so far has not tell you the thresholds for what constitute "close enough" or "far enough," and even then I am not sure those thresholds would work for the parking lot at a shopping mall/plaza use case.
Take Costco for example, the parking lot and the store itself are HUGE, so it's very likely I have to walk pretty far away from the store entrance and walk pretty far away from the car. Will the Apple AirTag work well in that scenario? For now, I am not confident that it will.
Hey @Horace, go do some user experience testing with AirTags in some big box store's parking lot and tell us how well the AirTag can help you find your car in the parking lot. Thanks!
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I got my AirTag today.
For now, it's a $29 toy. Stupid-easy to set up. And it works remarkably well, with an arrow on my phone pointing to the device. It even tells me how far from the device I am.
As I said, I tend to not lose things, but I can see it being a big bonus for Mrs. George and D3-D4.
The cheapest "holders" seem to be about $15 for a pair, and at $100 for a set of 4, it's not ridiculously expensive.
I'll mount it in my car and see how it works.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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I saw this story on CNN:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/30/cnn-underscored/apple-airtag-review/index.html
Generally, I find CNN to be a trustworthy and objective news source. That story is one of their best.
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I got my AirTag today.
For now, it's a $29 toy. Stupid-easy to set up. And it works remarkably well, with an arrow on my phone pointing to the device. It even tells me how far from the device I am.
As I said, I tend to not lose things, but I can see it being a big bonus for Mrs. George and D3-D4.
The cheapest "holders" seem to be about $15 for a pair, and at $100 for a set of 4, it's not ridiculously expensive.
I'll mount it in my car and see how it works.
@george-k said in Apple Inc.’s AirTag:
it's a $29 toy.
I put it in my car. In the "Find my" app, it doesn't appear if I'm out of bluetooth range.
So if my car is in the garage, "Find My" will not find my airtag.
Unless...I put it in "lost mode." When in lost mode, anybody with a moderately current iPhone (I think anything newer than an 8 ) will "see" the airtag and over the magic of the interwebz let me know where the airtag is.
For example, I just checked, and the airtag was seen at 7:32 this AM. But, not by me.
I'm not sure if I like this kind of "interconnectivity" or not.
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I can only see it being useful for keys and wallets. And only if you have a habit of misplacing them around the house.
@xenon said in Apple Inc.’s AirTag:
I can only see it being useful for keys and wallets. And only if you have a habit of misplacing them around the house.
Exactly.
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@xenon said in Apple Inc.’s AirTag:
I can only see it being useful for keys and wallets. And only if you have a habit of misplacing them around the house.
Exactly.
@george-k said in Apple Inc.’s AirTag:
@xenon said in Apple Inc.’s AirTag:
I can only see it being useful for keys and wallets. And only if you have a habit of misplacing them around the house.
Exactly.
I suggest one for each key, in case a key falls off the ring, or you need to take a key off, for instance at the car shop when taking the car in for repairs. Then one on the key fob.
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I got my AirTags and found them underwhelming.
In close enough range, the directional find function works. But that range is very small. The "find my car in a parking lot" use case won't work.
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I got my AirTags and found them underwhelming.
In close enough range, the directional find function works. But that range is very small. The "find my car in a parking lot" use case won't work.
