Guns and Voters

[taiwan_girl]

Just a random thought:

(and maybe I am making this too simple)

Democrat
Voting rights

• easy as possible
• no ID needed
• register day of voting
• remote voting
  etc.

Gun Rights

• background checks
• ID's needed
• waiting period
  etc.

Republics
Gun rights

• easy as possible
• no ID needed
• buy gun with no waiting
• buy remotely
  etc.

Voting Rights

• in person voting only
• ID's needed
• waiting period
  etc.

[Copper]

The problem with that random thought

It is ok to have lots of guns

It is not ok to vote lots of times

[xenon]

I don't think there's necessarily a contradiction there TG.

There's underlying values of avoiding disenfranchisement, and then there's safety.

For D's - avoiding disenfranchisement is more important than safety in voting. Safety is more important than disenfranchisement for gun rights.

Vice-versa for R's.

[Copper]

guns = safety

[xenon]

@copper said in Guns and Voters:

guns = safety

A lot of polite society on the south side of Chicago.

[taiwan_girl]

@copper said in Guns and Voters:

guns = safety

I really dont believe that is true.

Of course, statistics can be made to show any point.

Below is the article from which the graph above came.

(https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2013/03/the-correlation-between-guns-and-homicide-rate.html)

[Copper]

Homicide rate by country

Rank Country Value Year
1 El Salvador 61.80 2017
2 Jamaica 57.00 2017
3 Venezuela 56.30 2016
4 Honduras 41.70 2017
5 Lesotho 41.20 2015
6 Belize 37.90 2017
7 St. Vincent and the Grenadines 36.50 2016
8 South Africa 35.90 2017
9 St. Kitts and Nevis 34.20 2012
10 Trinidad and Tobago 30.90 2015
10 The Bahamas 30.90 2017
12 Brazil 30.50 2017
13 St. Lucia 29.60 2017
14 Guatemala 26.10 2017
15 Dominica 25.70 2017
16 Colombia 24.90 2017
17 Mexico 24.80 2017
18 Central African Republic 19.80 2016
19 Tuvalu 18.60 2012
20 Puerto Rico 18.50 2017
21 Namibia 17.10 2012
22 Botswana 15.00 2010
23 Guyana 14.80 2017
24 Seychelles 12.70 2016
25 Costa Rica 12.30 2017
26 Cabo Verde 11.50 2016
27 Dominican Republic 11.30 2017
28 Grenada 11.10 2017
29 Uganda 11.00 2017
30 Barbados 10.50 2017
31 Antigua and Barbuda 10.30 2012
32 Papua New Guinea 10.00 2010
33 Iraq 9.90 2013
34 Panama 9.70 2017
35 Haiti 9.50 2016
35 Eswatini 9.50 2017
37 Russia 9.20 2017
38 Paraguay 8.90 2016
39 Cayman Islands 8.40 2014
39 Philippines 8.40 2017
41 Uruguay 8.20 2017
42 Peru 7.70 2017
43 Kiribati 7.50 2012
44 Nicaragua 7.40 2016
45 Afghanistan 7.10 2017
46 Zimbabwe 6.70 2012
46 Yemen 6.70 2013
48 Bolivia 6.30 2016
49 Tanzania 6.20 2016
49 Mongolia 6.20 2017
49 Ukraine 6.20 2017
52 Burundi 6.00 2016
53 Ecuador 5.80 2017
54 Suriname 5.50 2017
55 Zambia 5.30 2015
55 United States 5.30 2017
55 Greenland 5.30 2016

[Doctor Phibes]

You're bottom of the shithole countries!

USA! USA! USA!

[Jolly]

@copper said in Guns and Voters:

Homicide rate by country

Rank Country Value Year
1 El Salvador 61.80 2017
2 Jamaica 57.00 2017
3 Venezuela 56.30 2016
4 Honduras 41.70 2017
5 Lesotho 41.20 2015
6 Belize 37.90 2017
7 St. Vincent and the Grenadines 36.50 2016
8 South Africa 35.90 2017
9 St. Kitts and Nevis 34.20 2012
10 Trinidad and Tobago 30.90 2015
10 The Bahamas 30.90 2017
12 Brazil 30.50 2017
13 St. Lucia 29.60 2017
14 Guatemala 26.10 2017
15 Dominica 25.70 2017
16 Colombia 24.90 2017
17 Mexico 24.80 2017
18 Central African Republic 19.80 2016
19 Tuvalu 18.60 2012
20 Puerto Rico 18.50 2017
21 Namibia 17.10 2012
22 Botswana 15.00 2010
23 Guyana 14.80 2017
24 Seychelles 12.70 2016
25 Costa Rica 12.30 2017
26 Cabo Verde 11.50 2016
27 Dominican Republic 11.30 2017
28 Grenada 11.10 2017
29 Uganda 11.00 2017
30 Barbados 10.50 2017
31 Antigua and Barbuda 10.30 2012
32 Papua New Guinea 10.00 2010
33 Iraq 9.90 2013
34 Panama 9.70 2017
35 Haiti 9.50 2016
35 Eswatini 9.50 2017
37 Russia 9.20 2017
38 Paraguay 8.90 2016
39 Cayman Islands 8.40 2014
39 Philippines 8.40 2017
41 Uruguay 8.20 2017
42 Peru 7.70 2017
43 Kiribati 7.50 2012
44 Nicaragua 7.40 2016
45 Afghanistan 7.10 2017
46 Zimbabwe 6.70 2012
46 Yemen 6.70 2013
48 Bolivia 6.30 2016
49 Tanzania 6.20 2016
49 Mongolia 6.20 2017
49 Ukraine 6.20 2017
52 Burundi 6.00 2016
53 Ecuador 5.80 2017
54 Suriname 5.50 2017
55 Zambia 5.30 2015
55 United States 5.30 2017
55 Greenland 5.30 2016

[Doctor Phibes]

@jolly If you want to compare the US to those countries to claim success in fighting crime, you've really lost the argument.

[Copper]

@doctor-phibes said in Guns and Voters:

@jolly If you want to compare the US to those countries to claim success in fighting crime, you've really lost the argument.

TG found a list of countries

I found a different list

Curse the lists or light a candle

[Doctor Phibes]

The fact that your list is basically a list of countries that Donald Trump doesn't want people to emigrate from didn't give you pause at all?

[Renauda]

@doctor-phibes

No wonder he wanted to annex purchase Greenland from Denmark.

[Copper]

There are some unsavory places on my list

But I also have several that should be considered "developed" that somehow, TG left off her list.

[taiwan_girl]

As some have noticed, the graph I posted was, as the title said, for developed countries excluding South Africa.

Below is a graph of all countries.

"But is it really fair to compare the U.S. to dangerous, developing countries like Honduras? Probably not. If the data is whittled down to include only developed countries, this is the result:"

"So, what happens if we eliminate South Africa from the analysis?"

"The developed countries in the third graph included: Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, UK (represented separately as "England & Wales" and "Northern Ireland") and the United States. Excluded from this list were South Africa, for the reasons listed above, as well as Andorra, Bermuda, Faroe Islands, Vatican, Liechtenstein, Monaco and San Marino due to insufficient data."

If you include many Asia "developed" countries (Japan, Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, etc., it would not make the US look better.

@Copper I am curious which ones you consider developed equal to the US from your list?

[Copper]

@taiwan_girl said in Guns and Voters:

@Copper I am curious which ones you consider developed equal to the US from your list?

Since we became great again there is really only 1.

Of course this has already begun to slip.

[Doctor Phibes]

@renauda said in Guns and Voters:

@doctor-phibes

No wonder he wanted to annex purchase Greenland from Denmark.

I'd always assumed he wanted to build the world's most challenging golf course there.

[Jolly]

@doctor-phibes said in Guns and Voters:

@renauda said in Guns and Voters:

@doctor-phibes

No wonder he wanted to annex purchase Greenland from Denmark.

I'd always assumed he wanted to build the world's most challenging golf course there.

Actually, it made pretty good sense from a strategic perspective.

[taiwan_girl]

@doctor-phibes said in Guns and Voters:

@renauda said in Guns and Voters:

@doctor-phibes

No wonder he wanted to annex purchase Greenland from Denmark.

I'd always assumed he wanted to build the world's most challenging golf course there.