Third Wave Here?

@renauda said in Third Wave Here?:

Nope, not Slick Willy.
It was none other than Dubya....

Yup, Scooby, we've got work to do when it comes to selecting good leaders.

Whenever I ask myself who was our GOAT president, try though I might, I can never avoid picking George Washington.

That is kind of depressing.

I wonder, though, how many other nations feel like they have the same problem. Is it more of a human issue, rather than an apathetic Americans issue?

In Britain, most would probably say Winston Churchill rather than, say, David Lloyd George or Clement Attlee, although in reality as a politician Churchill did one thing really, really well, and made some truly horrible blunders throughout his career, where Lloyd-George and Atlee were reformers who somewhat dragged Britain out of its frankly quite embarrassing, class-ridden past. I'm sure one US-born Briton at least would vote for Bo-Jo.

How many Americans really know anything about George Washington the politician rather than George Washington the heroic champion of freedom?

mark

@aqua-letifer said in Third Wave Here?:

I don't see how Carlson's tone helps to dampen the country's growing animosity toward one another. I do see how it could be pretty effective in keeping conservatives pissed off.

I don't need any of that shit in my life so I don't listen.

Bingo!

Horace

@catseye3 said in Third Wave Here?:

@renauda said in Third Wave Here?:

Nope, not Slick Willy.
It was none other than Dubya....

Yup, Scooby, we've got work to do when it comes to selecting good leaders.

Whenever I ask myself who was our GOAT president, try though I might, I can never avoid picking George Washington.

He was definitely the greatest of all time for an 8 year period.

Doctor Phibes

@mark said in Third Wave Here?:

@aqua-letifer said in Third Wave Here?:

I don't see how Carlson's tone helps to dampen the country's growing animosity toward one another. I do see how it could be pretty effective in keeping conservatives pissed off.

I don't need any of that shit in my life so I don't listen.

Bingo!

I think the argument is that it's OK to be obnoxious, aggressive and sow division when you're completely in the right.

Also, the irony of saying that 'liberals always call others stupid' in defence of Tucker Carlson and his ilk, who call others stupid all the time, is a bit freaking much.

Particularly when I didn't say anybody was stupid.

Horace

All you people who never listen to him are totally confident that he's a spittle flecked rabble rouser.

Doctor Phibes

@horace said in Third Wave Here?:

All you people who never listen to him are totally confident that he's a spittle flecked rabble rouser.

So he doesn't call people stupid?

Horace

@doctor-phibes said in Third Wave Here?:

@horace said in Third Wave Here?:

All you people who never listen to him are totally confident that he's a spittle flecked rabble rouser.

So he doesn't call people stupid?

I am sure he has called people stupid.

On the other hand, in a video of a monologue posted here yesterday, he was careful to understand and not judge those who attempt to come to America illegally from countries with much more difficult circumstances. You should listen to that one. He blames the politics of effectively open borders of the left, but not those who quite rationally take advantage of those politics, to better the lives of their families.

Doctor Phibes

@horace said in Third Wave Here?:

@doctor-phibes said in Third Wave Here?:

@horace said in Third Wave Here?:

All you people who never listen to him are totally confident that he's a spittle flecked rabble rouser.

So he doesn't call people stupid?

I am sure he has called people stupid.

On the other hand, in a video of a monologue posted here yesterday, he was careful to understand and not judge those who attempt to come to America illegally from countries with much more difficult circumstances. You should listen to that one. He blames the politics of effectively open borders of the left, but not those who quite rationally take advantage of those politics, to better the lives of their families.

I appreciate that you really like him, but I've seen a couple of these monologues, and they're not really saying anything particularly profound. Obviously, the issue of illegal immigration is a very difficult one, and many of those trying to come into the US and other countries can hardly be blamed for seeking a new life. As an aside, I found the anti-Mexican and immigrant rhetoric that Trump used in his 2016 campaign to be extremely unpleasant - describing them as 'rapists, murderers, and presumably some good people' was appalling. Again, many seem to disagree, but I thought he was pandering to bigots.

Catseye3

Excerpt from my Stoics newsletter:

"There were not many good emperors in Rome. There have not been many good kings since. In fact, there haven’t been many good leaders ever—there is something about power that seems to bring out the worst in people. It seems to be a light which destroys the moths that are drawn to it."

Suetonius: "[P]ower unmasks the true identity of leaders. It brings to light weaknesses that were there all along but might have been overlooked."

The title of the above essay is "Power Doesn't Corrupt, It Reveals".

Catseye3

@horace said in Third Wave Here?:

Whenever I ask myself who was our GOAT president, try though I might, I can never avoid picking George Washington.

He was definitely the greatest of all time for an 8 year period.

Yes. I agree with that assessment. That's the trouble. By 'trying to avoid', I meant I despairingly wish I could pick somebody else, preferably someone closer to our time.

Doctor Phibes

@catseye3 said in Third Wave Here?:

Excerpt from my Stoics newsletter:

"There were not many good emperors in Rome. There have not been many good kings since. In fact, there haven’t been many good leaders ever—there is something about power that seems to bring out the worst in people. It seems to be a light which destroys the moths that are drawn to it."

Suetonius: "[P]ower unmasks the true identity of leaders. It brings to light weaknesses that were there all along but might have been overlooked."

The title of the above essay is "Power Doesn't Corrupt, It Reveals".

If you ever work with people who are hungry for power, it doesn't take long to realise that there's frequently something wrong with them.

Jolly

@horace said in Third Wave Here?:

@doctor-phibes said in Third Wave Here?:

@horace said in Third Wave Here?:

All you people who never listen to him are totally confident that he's a spittle flecked rabble rouser.

So he doesn't call people stupid?

I am sure he has called people stupid.

On the other hand, in a video of a monologue posted here yesterday, he was careful to understand and not judge those who attempt to come to America illegally from countries with much more difficult circumstances. You should listen to that one. He blames the politics of effectively open borders of the left, but not those who quite rationally take advantage of those politics, to better the lives of their families.

I like Tucker. Yes, he has a tv show and yes, he wants to draw viewers. But he tends to have a reasoned argument and he will excoriate conservatives when he feels they are wrong on an issue.

Horace

@doctor-phibes said in Third Wave Here?:

@horace said in Third Wave Here?:

@doctor-phibes said in Third Wave Here?:

@horace said in Third Wave Here?:

All you people who never listen to him are totally confident that he's a spittle flecked rabble rouser.

So he doesn't call people stupid?

I am sure he has called people stupid.

On the other hand, in a video of a monologue posted here yesterday, he was careful to understand and not judge those who attempt to come to America illegally from countries with much more difficult circumstances. You should listen to that one. He blames the politics of effectively open borders of the left, but not those who quite rationally take advantage of those politics, to better the lives of their families.

I appreciate that you really like him, but I've seen a couple of these monologues, and they're not really saying anything particularly profound.

Well, I don't expect you to find profundity in anything other than jazz music. But political talk doesn't have to be profound to serve a purpose. In the case of conservative talk, they can state relatively obvious things that don't get stated by those indoctrinated by the left. It's refreshing to hear.

Obviously, the issue of illegal immigration is a very difficult one, and many of those trying to come into the US and other countries can hardly be blamed for seeking a new life. As an aside, I found the anti-Mexican and immigrant rhetoric that Trump used in his 2016 campaign to be extremely unpleasant - describing them as 'rapists, murderers, and presumably some good people' was appalling. Again, many seem to disagree, but I thought he was pandering to bigots.

As usual, you're conflating voting for him or supporting him with agreeing with everything he says. I didn't like that rhetoric either, but I still supported him within the context of choosing between two candidates.

Doctor Phibes

@horace said in Third Wave Here?:

As usual, you're conflating voting for him or supporting him with agreeing with everything he says. I didn't like that rhetoric either, but I still supported him within the context of choosing between two candidates.

No, I'm not. I thought he was pandering to racists. I don't think everybody who voted for him was a racist, or a bad person. I just think they chose to look the other way regarding his more disgusting personality traits, or decided that he was preferable to Hilary Clinton.

And those who have sung his praises as being a truly great president (I'm not talking about you, Horace) clearly looked away a lot harder than some others.

Aqua Letifer

@doctor-phibes said in Third Wave Here?:

And those who have sung his praises as being a truly great president (I'm not talking about you, Horace) clearly looked away a lot harder than some others.

I think the story for a lot of Trumpists is that all politicians are exactly that bad, so it's a wash anyway.

Which isn't true. However you want to label January 6, his actions at the time are unique to Trump. No other modern president has ever done something like that.

Horace

@doctor-phibes said in Third Wave Here?:

@horace said in Third Wave Here?:

As usual, you're conflating voting for him or supporting him with agreeing with everything he says. I didn't like that rhetoric either, but I still supported him within the context of choosing between two candidates.

No, I'm not. I thought he was pandering to racists. I don't think everybody who voted for him was a racist, or a bad person. I just think they chose to look the other way regarding his more disgusting personality traits, or decided that he was preferable to Hilary Clinton.

Deciding that one candidate is preferable to the other is how elections work. And making horrible assumptions about the personal character of those who preferred Trump, is how the left works.

Doctor Phibes

@horace said in Third Wave Here?:

@doctor-phibes said in Third Wave Here?:

@horace said in Third Wave Here?:

As usual, you're conflating voting for him or supporting him with agreeing with everything he says. I didn't like that rhetoric either, but I still supported him within the context of choosing between two candidates.

No, I'm not. I thought he was pandering to racists. I don't think everybody who voted for him was a racist, or a bad person. I just think they chose to look the other way regarding his more disgusting personality traits, or decided that he was preferable to Hilary Clinton.

Deciding that one candidate is preferable to the other is how elections work. And making horrible assumptions about the personal character of those who preferred Trump, is how the left works.

I just said I don't think the people who voted for him were bad. And I'm of the left, just not the left as you define it.

The New Coffee Room

Third Wave Here?