Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies."
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The fact that the WaPo stated, as a matter of fact, something that the president never said doesn't bother anyone?
I really don't care about the other statements he made. The fact that this one was reported, and repeated, as though...what's the word, oh, yeah....it were in an echo chamber is chilling.
And the fact that we find that this was made up, out of whole cloth, about 3 months later is no less bothersome.
Quis custodiet...and all that shit.
@george-k said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
The fact that the WaPo stated, as a matter of fact, something that the president never said doesn't bother anyone?
People, including journalists, make mistake. WaPo figures out they made a mistake and they owned up to it, publicly. Not as good as not making a mistake in the first place, but publicly correcting your mistake is the second best thing. What WaPo did this time is still way better than Trump making mistakes that he refuses to own up to even after his mistakes have been convincingly demonstrated as such.
Further, Trump at the time had no business calling Georgia's Sec. of State to begin with. Let the campaign get its lawyers make that sort of phone calls, Trump should not have taken part in such a call himself.
I really don't care about the other statements he made. The fact that this one was reported, and repeated, as though...what's the word, oh, yeah....it were in an echo chamber is chilling.
You cared about the wrong statement. You should have cared about the “I just want to find 11,780 votes” -- you can hear the recording of that call and you can analyze it for yourself, free from any journalist/analyst/opinion writer's recounting or interpretation of what happened.
And the fact that we find that this was made up, out of whole cloth, about 3 months later is no less bothersome.
It is less bothersome than finding out 6 months later, it is less bothersome than finding out 12 months later, etc.
Quis custodiet...and all that shit.
Georgia's Sec. State released the recordings, that is the quis custodiet ... shit for this case. Georgia's Sec. State has the recording all along, they could have and ideally should have released it immediately right after the phone call, then there would have been no mistaken reporting. Even if not immediately, they should have released it upon learning that there are inaccurate reporting about it in the public media -- that too could have shortened the time the mistake remained in circulation. Why did it take so long for Georgias Sec. State to correct this mistake? I hope there is a good explanation, or at least an innocent one.
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@george-k said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
The fact that the WaPo stated, as a matter of fact, something that the president never said doesn't bother anyone?
People, including journalists, make mistake. WaPo figures out they made a mistake and they owned up to it, publicly. Not as good as not making a mistake in the first place, but publicly correcting your mistake is the second best thing. What WaPo did this time is still way better than Trump making mistakes that he refuses to own up to even after his mistakes have been convincingly demonstrated as such.
Further, Trump at the time had no business calling Georgia's Sec. of State to begin with. Let the campaign get its lawyers make that sort of phone calls, Trump should not have taken part in such a call himself.
I really don't care about the other statements he made. The fact that this one was reported, and repeated, as though...what's the word, oh, yeah....it were in an echo chamber is chilling.
You cared about the wrong statement. You should have cared about the “I just want to find 11,780 votes” -- you can hear the recording of that call and you can analyze it for yourself, free from any journalist/analyst/opinion writer's recounting or interpretation of what happened.
And the fact that we find that this was made up, out of whole cloth, about 3 months later is no less bothersome.
It is less bothersome than finding out 6 months later, it is less bothersome than finding out 12 months later, etc.
Quis custodiet...and all that shit.
Georgia's Sec. State released the recordings, that is the quis custodiet ... shit for this case. Georgia's Sec. State has the recording all along, they could have and ideally should have released it immediately right after the phone call, then there would have been no mistaken reporting. Even if not immediately, they should have released it upon learning that there are inaccurate reporting about it in the public media -- that too could have shortened the time the mistake remained in circulation. Why did it take so long for Georgias Sec. State to correct this mistake? I hope there is a good explanation, or at least an innocent one.
@axtremus said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
People, including journalists, make mistake. WaPo figures out they made a mistake and they owned up to it, publicly.
This was not a "mistake." This was something they made up out of whole cloth. They attributed a quotation to the president which he never made. The word for taht is not "mistake," it's "lying."
Not as good as not making a mistake in the first place, but publicly correcting your mistake is the second best thing.
And it took them three months to do it.
What WaPo did this time is still way better than Trump making mistakes that he refuses to own up to even after his mistakes have been convincingly demonstrated as such.
So, you're holding the WaPo to the Trump Standard? C'mon, man!
Further, Trump at the time had no business calling Georgia's Sec. of State to begin with. Let the campaign get its lawyers make that sort of phone calls, Trump should not have taken part in such a call himself.
That's irrelevant to the WaPo's reporting. What Trump did to the GA SecState might well have been wrong, but it does not absolve the Post of making stuff up. "Darkness," after all.
You cared about the wrong statement. You should have cared about the “I just want to find 11,780 votes” -- you can hear the recording of that call and you can analyze it for yourself, free from any journalist/analyst/opinion writer's recounting or interpretation of what happened.
No, I care about a "newspaper" reporting, what's the word...oh, yeah, FACTS, accurately, and not making shit up.
It is less bothersome than finding out 6 months later, it is less bothersome than finding out 12 months later, etc.
Glad to see you arguing about price.
Quis custodiet...and all that shit.
Georgia's Sec. State released the recordings, that is the quis custodiet ... shit for this case. Georgia's Sec. State has the recording all along, they could have and ideally should have released it immediately right after the phone call, then there would have been no mistaken reporting. Even if not immediately, they should have released it upon learning that there are inaccurate reporting about it in the public media -- that too could have shortened the time the mistake remained in circulation. Why did it take so long for Georgias Sec. State to correct this mistake? I hope there is a good explanation, or at least an innocent one.
Once again, I have no dispute with the GA SecState call and the reporting thereof. This is a separate issue, one of a news source making up quotations.
Please, burn your strawman - it's pretty ripe.
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And, I just came across this. The Democrats used this "Fake News" (can I say that now?) story in the articles of impeachment:
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And, I just came across this. The Democrats used this "Fake News" (can I say that now?) story in the articles of impeachment:
@george-k said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
And, I just came across this. The Democrats used this "Fake News" (can I say that now?) story in the articles of impeachment:
I realize impeachment is a political event, but the Articles ought to at least be based on facts. Of course, there were hot lies in the first Articles.
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I am aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who ever cared whether he was maliciously lied about. I am also aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who would admit to that fact. One must keep up appearances, after all. Their facade of virtue is totally fooling everybody, just ask them.
Education is extremely important.
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I did not read the original story, but I do not think it is uncommon for a news article to say something like, "according to sources, XXX happened......"
Maybe Aqua can comment if in journalism class, they tell you to have two sources to confirm information. Seems like it should have certainly been done here.
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I did not read the original story, but I do not think it is uncommon for a news article to say something like, "according to sources, XXX happened......"
Maybe Aqua can comment if in journalism class, they tell you to have two sources to confirm information. Seems like it should have certainly been done here.
@taiwan_girl said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
"according to sources, XXX happened......"
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I did not read the original story, but I do not think it is uncommon for a news article to say something like, "according to sources, XXX happened......"
Maybe Aqua can comment if in journalism class, they tell you to have two sources to confirm information. Seems like it should have certainly been done here.
@taiwan_girl said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
I did not read the original story, but I do not think it is uncommon for a news article to say something like, "according to sources, XXX happened......"
Maybe Aqua can comment if in journalism class, they tell you to have two sources to confirm information. Seems like it should have certainly been done here.
When I was in journalism school they taught me that if you can't confirm it you can't print it. That hasn't been the case anymore for many years.
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I am aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who ever cared whether he was maliciously lied about. I am also aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who would admit to that fact. One must keep up appearances, after all. Their facade of virtue is totally fooling everybody, just ask them.
@horace said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
I am aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who ever cared whether he was maliciously lied about. I am also aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who would admit to that fact. One must keep up appearances, after all. Their facade of virtue is totally fooling everybody, just ask them.
I became convinced after the Russia! hoax, when it was well known it was a fake created on a bed of lies in a FISA court, that fairness, due process and rule of law had been thrown out the window in a single-minded pursuit of power and ideology.
People were willing to prostitute their souls, Because Trump.
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I am aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who ever cared whether he was maliciously lied about. I am also aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who would admit to that fact. One must keep up appearances, after all. Their facade of virtue is totally fooling everybody, just ask them.
@horace said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
I am aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who ever cared whether he was maliciously lied about. I am also aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who would admit to that fact. One must keep up appearances, after all. Their facade of virtue is totally fooling everybody, just ask them.
I'm what you would call an anti-Trumper, and I also think the media treated him unfairly. I actually think what the US media did was terrible. I've stopped listening to NPR, pretty much the only US media I could stomach, because they are horribly biased. In some ways they're worse than CNN because quite a few of them appear to honestly believe they're being objective.
The US media bias tended to have two effects - it cemented the people who didn't like Trump even more securely in that camp, and it also made his supporters rally around even more, even when he behaved very poorly, which he frequently did, so it was counter-productive in that regard. So, now the country is even more divided.
Trump's still an asshole, of course.
I was only joking
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@horace said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
I am aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who ever cared whether he was maliciously lied about. I am also aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who would admit to that fact. One must keep up appearances, after all. Their facade of virtue is totally fooling everybody, just ask them.
I'm what you would call an anti-Trumper, and I also think the media treated him unfairly. I actually think what the US media did was terrible. I've stopped listening to NPR, pretty much the only US media I could stomach, because they are horribly biased. In some ways they're worse than CNN because quite a few of them appear to honestly believe they're being objective.
The US media bias tended to have two effects - it cemented the people who didn't like Trump even more securely in that camp, and it also made his supporters rally around even more, even when he behaved very poorly, which he frequently did, so it was counter-productive in that regard. So, now the country is even more divided.
Trump's still an asshole, of course.
@doctor-phibes said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
I'm what you would call an anti-Trumper, and I also think the media treated him unfairly. I actually think what the US media did was terrible. I've stopped listening to NPR, pretty much the only US media I could stomach, because they are horribly biased. In some ways they're worse than CNN because quite a few of them appear to honestly believe they're being objective.
The US media bias tended to have two effects - it cemented the people who didn't like Trump even more securely in that camp, and it also made his supporters rally around even more, even when he behaved very poorly, which he frequently did, so it was counter-productive in that regard. So, now the country is even more divided.
Trump's still an asshole, of course.
Well put.
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@horace said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
I am aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who ever cared whether he was maliciously lied about. I am also aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who would admit to that fact. One must keep up appearances, after all. Their facade of virtue is totally fooling everybody, just ask them.
I'm what you would call an anti-Trumper, and I also think the media treated him unfairly. I actually think what the US media did was terrible. I've stopped listening to NPR, pretty much the only US media I could stomach, because they are horribly biased. In some ways they're worse than CNN because quite a few of them appear to honestly believe they're being objective.
The US media bias tended to have two effects - it cemented the people who didn't like Trump even more securely in that camp, and it also made his supporters rally around even more, even when he behaved very poorly, which he frequently did, so it was counter-productive in that regard. So, now the country is even more divided.
Trump's still an asshole, of course.
@doctor-phibes said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
@horace said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
I am aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who ever cared whether he was maliciously lied about. I am also aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who would admit to that fact. One must keep up appearances, after all. Their facade of virtue is totally fooling everybody, just ask them.
I'm what you would call an anti-Trumper, and I also think the media treated him unfairly. I actually think what the US media did was terrible. I've stopped listening to NPR, pretty much the only US media I could stomach, because they are horribly biased. In some ways they're worse than CNN because quite a few of them appear to honestly believe they're being objective.
The US media bias tended to have two effects - it cemented the people who didn't like Trump even more securely in that camp, and it also made his supporters rally around even more, even when he behaved very poorly, which he frequently did, so it was counter-productive in that regard. So, now the country is even more divided.
Trump's still an asshole, of course.
Write it down.
I agree completely.
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@doctor-phibes said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
@horace said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
I am aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who ever cared whether he was maliciously lied about. I am also aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who would admit to that fact. One must keep up appearances, after all. Their facade of virtue is totally fooling everybody, just ask them.
I'm what you would call an anti-Trumper, and I also think the media treated him unfairly. I actually think what the US media did was terrible. I've stopped listening to NPR, pretty much the only US media I could stomach, because they are horribly biased. In some ways they're worse than CNN because quite a few of them appear to honestly believe they're being objective.
The US media bias tended to have two effects - it cemented the people who didn't like Trump even more securely in that camp, and it also made his supporters rally around even more, even when he behaved very poorly, which he frequently did, so it was counter-productive in that regard. So, now the country is even more divided.
Trump's still an asshole, of course.
Write it down.
I agree completely.
@jolly said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
@doctor-phibes said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
@horace said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
I am aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who ever cared whether he was maliciously lied about. I am also aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who would admit to that fact. One must keep up appearances, after all. Their facade of virtue is totally fooling everybody, just ask them.
I'm what you would call an anti-Trumper, and I also think the media treated him unfairly. I actually think what the US media did was terrible. I've stopped listening to NPR, pretty much the only US media I could stomach, because they are horribly biased. In some ways they're worse than CNN because quite a few of them appear to honestly believe they're being objective.
The US media bias tended to have two effects - it cemented the people who didn't like Trump even more securely in that camp, and it also made his supporters rally around even more, even when he behaved very poorly, which he frequently did, so it was counter-productive in that regard. So, now the country is even more divided.
Trump's still an asshole, of course.
Write it down.
I agree completely.
I have no problem with Trump being taken down for what he did, in fact I will say it is a good thing. I am disgusted that others in Congress and the Media didn’t as well. The hypocrisy is so obvious and they know it and snicker, which shows that they truly believe the ends justify the means.
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@horace said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
I am aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who ever cared whether he was maliciously lied about. I am also aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who would admit to that fact. One must keep up appearances, after all. Their facade of virtue is totally fooling everybody, just ask them.
I'm what you would call an anti-Trumper, and I also think the media treated him unfairly. I actually think what the US media did was terrible. I've stopped listening to NPR, pretty much the only US media I could stomach, because they are horribly biased. In some ways they're worse than CNN because quite a few of them appear to honestly believe they're being objective.
The US media bias tended to have two effects - it cemented the people who didn't like Trump even more securely in that camp, and it also made his supporters rally around even more, even when he behaved very poorly, which he frequently did, so it was counter-productive in that regard. So, now the country is even more divided.
Trump's still an asshole, of course.
@doctor-phibes said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
@horace said in Tell me, again, where "Democracy dies.":
I am aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who ever cared whether he was maliciously lied about. I am also aware of exactly zero anti-Trumpers who would admit to that fact. One must keep up appearances, after all. Their facade of virtue is totally fooling everybody, just ask them.
I'm what you would call an anti-Trumper, and I also think the media treated him unfairly. I actually think what the US media did was terrible. I've stopped listening to NPR, pretty much the only US media I could stomach, because they are horribly biased. In some ways they're worse than CNN because quite a few of them appear to honestly believe they're being objective.
The US media bias tended to have two effects - it cemented the people who didn't like Trump even more securely in that camp, and it also made his supporters rally around even more, even when he behaved very poorly, which he frequently did, so it was counter-productive in that regard. So, now the country is even more divided.
Trump's still an asshole, of course.
Yep, well put.
