Where's Kim?
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AN article I was reading in local press was that he was in for a procedure to install a stent, which should(?) only take a minute or two.
But the doctor was so nervous, that it took much much longer and Premier Kim was without oxygen for a longer period, and is suffering the effects of that and is in a vegetable state.
Our forum doctors can probably say if the above is realistic or not.
As with any news about DPRK, it is mostly guessing.
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Mu first thought:
Link to video -
AN article I was reading in local press was that he was in for a procedure to install a stent, which should(?) only take a minute or two.
But the doctor was so nervous, that it took much much longer and Premier Kim was without oxygen for a longer period, and is suffering the effects of that and is in a vegetable state.
Our forum doctors can probably say if the above is realistic or not.
As with any news about DPRK, it is mostly guessing.
@taiwan_girl said in Where's Kim?:
AN article I was reading in local press was that he was in for a procedure to install a stent, which should(?) only take a minute or two.
But the doctor was so nervous, that it took much much longer and Premier Kim was without oxygen for a longer period, and is suffering the effects of that and is in a vegetable state.
Our forum doctors can probably say if the above is realistic or not.
As with any news about DPRK, it is mostly guessing.
So I believe a team of doctors from China came, whether or not he is in a vegetative state is probably the speculative part.
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Putting in a stent is not a trivial affair, by any means. It involves getting a wire into a coronary artery from a remote location (groin, wrist or arm artery). Then a balloon with the stent is placed over the wire. The balloon is inflated, unclogging the artery, and the stent is then deployed to keep the artery open.
There are many dangerous parts of the procedure: inserting the wire through an obstruction can send debris down the artery causing ischemia farther down. The artery can be ruptured by the inflation of the balloon, or the inflation can send debris distally as well. Putting a wire into the heart can cause all kinds of heart arrythmias, some potentially lethal. The patient is sedated, potentially causing all kinds of anesthesia issues (airway, inadequate breathing, etc). The last thing I'd want to do is have to intubate that fat little guy.
So, it's not simple, doesn't take "a minute," etc. Certainly, if the anatomy is favorable, it's a far better thing than open heart surgery, but that's a judgment call by the cardiologist as to whether to stent or refer to a surgeon. If you recall, Jolly's anatomy dictated a CABG, not a stent.
Lots of things can go south, and when they do, it's a disaster. I hated catastrophes in the cath lab. Under best of circumstances, when that happens, you rush the patient to the OR for CABG. However, just transporting, getting an OR ready, etc takes time - precious time.
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Putting in a stent is not a trivial affair, by any means. It involves getting a wire into a coronary artery from a remote location (groin, wrist or arm artery). Then a balloon with the stent is placed over the wire. The balloon is inflated, unclogging the artery, and the stent is then deployed to keep the artery open.
There are many dangerous parts of the procedure: inserting the wire through an obstruction can send debris down the artery causing ischemia farther down. The artery can be ruptured by the inflation of the balloon, or the inflation can send debris distally as well. Putting a wire into the heart can cause all kinds of heart arrythmias, some potentially lethal. The patient is sedated, potentially causing all kinds of anesthesia issues (airway, inadequate breathing, etc). The last thing I'd want to do is have to intubate that fat little guy.
So, it's not simple, doesn't take "a minute," etc. Certainly, if the anatomy is favorable, it's a far better thing than open heart surgery, but that's a judgment call by the cardiologist as to whether to stent or refer to a surgeon. If you recall, Jolly's anatomy dictated a CABG, not a stent.
Lots of things can go south, and when they do, it's a disaster. I hated catastrophes in the cath lab. Under best of circumstances, when that happens, you rush the patient to the OR for CABG. However, just transporting, getting an OR ready, etc takes time - precious time.
@George-K said in Where's Kim?:
Putting in a stent is not a trivial affair, by any means. It involves getting a wire into a coronary artery from a remote location (groin, wrist or arm artery). Then a balloon with the stent is placed over the wire. The balloon is inflated, unclogging the artery, and the stent is then deployed to keep the artery open.
There are many dangerous parts of the procedure: inserting the wire through an obstruction can send debris down the artery causing ischemia farther down. The artery can be ruptured by the inflation of the balloon, or the inflation can send debris distally as well. Putting a wire into the heart can cause all kinds of heart arrythmias, some potentially lethal. The patient is sedated, potentially causing all kinds of anesthesia issues (airway, inadequate breathing, etc). The last thing I'd want to do is have to intubate that fat little guy.
So, it's not simple, doesn't take "a minute," etc. Certainly, if the anatomy is favorable, it's a far better thing than open heart surgery, but that's a judgment call by the cardiologist as to whether to stent or refer to a surgeon. If you recall, Jolly's anatomy dictated a CABG, not a stent.
Lots of things can go south, and when they do, it's a disaster. I hated catastrophes in the cath lab. Under best of circumstances, when that happens, you rush the patient to the OR for CABG. However, just transporting, getting an OR ready, etc takes time - precious time.
So you are saying you can create a credible rumor by merely saying he had a stent put in?
I still give it less than a coin toss odds. Parlor game right now...or he’s dead and there is lots of planning around what’s next before it’s announced. China would have a huge mess on its hands and could use the time. On the other hand Kim might be enjoying a sequel to his first head fake.
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@George-K said in Where's Kim?:
Putting in a stent is not a trivial affair, by any means. It involves getting a wire into a coronary artery from a remote location (groin, wrist or arm artery). Then a balloon with the stent is placed over the wire. The balloon is inflated, unclogging the artery, and the stent is then deployed to keep the artery open.
There are many dangerous parts of the procedure: inserting the wire through an obstruction can send debris down the artery causing ischemia farther down. The artery can be ruptured by the inflation of the balloon, or the inflation can send debris distally as well. Putting a wire into the heart can cause all kinds of heart arrythmias, some potentially lethal. The patient is sedated, potentially causing all kinds of anesthesia issues (airway, inadequate breathing, etc). The last thing I'd want to do is have to intubate that fat little guy.
So, it's not simple, doesn't take "a minute," etc. Certainly, if the anatomy is favorable, it's a far better thing than open heart surgery, but that's a judgment call by the cardiologist as to whether to stent or refer to a surgeon. If you recall, Jolly's anatomy dictated a CABG, not a stent.
Lots of things can go south, and when they do, it's a disaster. I hated catastrophes in the cath lab. Under best of circumstances, when that happens, you rush the patient to the OR for CABG. However, just transporting, getting an OR ready, etc takes time - precious time.
So you are saying you can create a credible rumor by merely saying he had a stent put in?
I still give it less than a coin toss odds. Parlor game right now...or he’s dead and there is lots of planning around what’s next before it’s announced. China would have a huge mess on its hands and could use the time. On the other hand Kim might be enjoying a sequel to his first head fake.
@Loki said in Where's Kim?:
So you are saying you can create a credible rumor by merely saying he had a stent put in?
No, I'm saying that I've seen more than a handful of patients have catastrophes while on the cath table during a stent placement. Not many, but more than a handful in 35 years of being on the heart surgery team. If Kim had a stent put in, it is within the realms of possibility that things didn't go well. I have no idea how talented the cardiologists in North Korea are, but I would not go there for my procedure.
It happens, and when you add complicating factors, like obesity, smoking, etc., the risks escalate.
In the early days of doing this (I'm talking late 1980s to early 1990s, every time the cath lab was going to place a stent, or do an angioplasty, everyone on the heart surgery team was required to be in-house during the procedure, lest things go pear-shaped. As the cardiologists got better at it, that requirement was dropped. What do you think the skills of North Korean cardiologists are? How commonly do they place stents/do angioplasty. My guess is rare. With experience comes expertise. With expertise, complications go down.
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https://www.tmz.com/2020/04/25/north-korea-dictator-kim-jong-un-dead-dies-heart-surgery-reports/
North Korea's Supreme Leader/dictator Kim Jong-un has reportedly died, or is on his death bed with no hope for recuperation -- according to media outlets in China and Japan.
Amid reports China has sent a medical team to their communist neighbors this week to check in/advise on Kim, a Hong Kong-backed news channel's vice director -- who's apparently the niece of a Chinese foreign minister -- blasted out the news herself ... he's dead. TMZ has not confirmed that.
The woman put the report on a social media app called Weibo for her nearly 15 million followers to read, citing a "very solid source" about the claim Kim had, in fact, perished. A Japanese magazine reports he's in a "vegetative state" after a heart surgery gone wrong.
The outlet reports -- citing a Chinese medical expert privy to the situation -- that Kim had clutched his chest in early April and fell down while visiting the countryside there. He needed a stent procedure done, but apparently ... it either wasn't done rapidly enough, or it was botched completely by the surgeon -- with some reports saying he had shaky hands.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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Jackass, you don't inject bleach. You inhale it.
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https://www.tmz.com/2020/04/25/north-korea-dictator-kim-jong-un-dead-dies-heart-surgery-reports/
North Korea's Supreme Leader/dictator Kim Jong-un has reportedly died, or is on his death bed with no hope for recuperation -- according to media outlets in China and Japan.
Amid reports China has sent a medical team to their communist neighbors this week to check in/advise on Kim, a Hong Kong-backed news channel's vice director -- who's apparently the niece of a Chinese foreign minister -- blasted out the news herself ... he's dead. TMZ has not confirmed that.
The woman put the report on a social media app called Weibo for her nearly 15 million followers to read, citing a "very solid source" about the claim Kim had, in fact, perished. A Japanese magazine reports he's in a "vegetative state" after a heart surgery gone wrong.
The outlet reports -- citing a Chinese medical expert privy to the situation -- that Kim had clutched his chest in early April and fell down while visiting the countryside there. He needed a stent procedure done, but apparently ... it either wasn't done rapidly enough, or it was botched completely by the surgeon -- with some reports saying he had shaky hands.
@George-K said in Where's Kim?:
or it was botched completely by the surgeon -- with some reports saying he had shaky hands.
If as a surgeon, a patient said to me, "I die,you die", I'd have shaky hands too.
We have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run, there's still time to change the road you're on. -
Any closer to resolution, or is this still Schrödinger's dictator?
Only non-witches get due process.
- Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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@George-K said in Where's Kim?:
or it was botched completely by the surgeon -- with some reports saying he had shaky hands.
If as a surgeon, a patient said to me, "I die,you die", I'd have shaky hands too.
@Improviso said in Where's Kim?:
@George-K said in Where's Kim?:
or it was botched completely by the surgeon -- with some reports saying he had shaky hands.
If as a surgeon, a patient said to me, "I die,you die", I'd have shaky hands too.
Kim was not in such a low position in the hierarchy that he'd need to say that. Making threats is for the little people.
