The circular firing squad
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@jolly said in The circular firing squad:
The Presbyterians have gone down a rabbit hole in the U.S., which is why they are a dying church.
Have their numbers gone down more than those of other denominations?
@klaus said in The circular firing squad:
@jolly said in The circular firing squad:
The Presbyterians have gone down a rabbit hole in the U.S., which is why they are a dying church.
Have their numbers gone down more than those of other denominations?
That's not the kind of death he's talking about.
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@klaus said in The circular firing squad:
@jolly said in The circular firing squad:
The Presbyterians have gone down a rabbit hole in the U.S., which is why they are a dying church.
Have their numbers gone down more than those of other denominations?
That's not the kind of death he's talking about.
@larry said in The circular firing squad:
@klaus said in The circular firing squad:
@jolly said in The circular firing squad:
The Presbyterians have gone down a rabbit hole in the U.S., which is why they are a dying church.
Have their numbers gone down more than those of other denominations?
That's not the kind of death he's talking about.
By the way, Larry, I’m completely ok with you interjecting my talking with Jolly and clarifying his comment.
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@klaus said in The circular firing squad:
What kind of death is he talking about?
Spiritual death. Actually, apostate churches should actually show an increase in physical numbers, since it's far easier to "fit in" than a church that sticks to scripture.
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@larry said in The circular firing squad:
@klaus said in The circular firing squad:
@jolly said in The circular firing squad:
The Presbyterians have gone down a rabbit hole in the U.S., which is why they are a dying church.
Have their numbers gone down more than those of other denominations?
That's not the kind of death he's talking about.
By the way, Larry, I’m completely ok with you interjecting my talking with Jolly and clarifying his comment.
@klaus said in The circular firing squad:
@larry said in The circular firing squad:
@klaus said in The circular firing squad:
@jolly said in The circular firing squad:
The Presbyterians have gone down a rabbit hole in the U.S., which is why they are a dying church.
Have their numbers gone down more than those of other denominations?
That's not the kind of death he's talking about.
By the way, Larry, I’m completely ok with you interjecting my talking with Jolly and clarifying his comment.
Point taken.
Want a cookie?
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@doctor-phibes said in The circular firing squad:
@bachophile said in The circular firing squad:
@doctor-phibes maybe Paul. Jesus never left the fold. Lived and died one of ours. So there.
Well, that depends on the definition of 'apostate'. In this thread it has been used to define somebody who doesn't follow the rules, not one who has abandoned his faith or religion.
You don't get to write your own religion. The Bible is the written record that sets out the tenets of Christianity, and it is the Bible that spells out who is and who is not apostate. No offense, but if you are not schooled in the teachings of scripture, you can't understand it, and you'll base your opinion on your own opinions. Sure, Dewey is a nice guy. His church congregation is, I'm sure, a nice group of people. But that has nothing to do with apostasy.
"Not one who has abandoned his faith or religion".... no, that's exactly why he IS apostate, as is his entire denomination part of thevapostate church. Both he and his church HAVE abandoned their faith and religion in favor of a version of it that is not biblical. They don't agree, and think they are just fine. For a social club, they are. As Christians, they are not.
@larry said in The circular firing squad:
No offense, but if you are not schooled in the teachings of scripture, you can't understand it, and you'll base your opinion on your own opinions.
I base all my opinions on my own opinions.
As an aside, Pope Benedict XVI said that all churches other than the RC Church were not true churches, and I'd be willing to be he's a lot more schooled in the teachings of scripture than anybody here. Doesn't mean he's right, though, however schooled he is.
Live and let live is my motto. As long as people aren't trying to interfere with what I do, they can pretty much do what they like in church as far as I'm concerned, and using words like 'apostate' doesn't really achieve much. There's a long history of religious folks killing each other over this kind of stuff, which generally is something best avoided.
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To take another example that is less connected to individual posters here:
Is allowing women priests apostasy?
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My understanding is that apostate is not strictly related to believing in the Bible.
For example, the podcast I am listening to it’s about the fundamentalist church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints. (FLDS). In that podcast, they talk a lot about people who stop believing some of the teachings of FLDS, and they are called apostates, and completely shunned by the people still in the FLDS.
So I believe that an apostate is someone who stops following the rules of a particular religion, doesn’t have to be one that believes in the Bible or not.
And even then, it is just a particular branch of religion. As @Doctor-Phibes said above, the head of the Catholic Church says that the catholic church is the only true church. If you were a catholic and changed to a different Christian church, you are considered apostate to the Catholic Church.
But really, unless it is something like the FLDS, apostate really doesn’t mean anything.
So, what is an apostate for one person is not for another.
Note: edited my post to try and make more clear.
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I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump. I ran over and said: "Stop. Don't do it."
"Why shouldn't I?" he asked.
"Well, there's so much to live for!"
"Like what?"
"Are you religious?"
He said: "Yes."
I said: "Me too. Are you Christian or Buddhist?"
"Christian."
"Me too. Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
"Protestant."
"Me too. Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"
"Baptist."
"Wow. Me too. Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"
"Baptist Church of God."
"Me too. Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"
"Reformed Baptist Church of God."
"Me too. Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?"
He said: "Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915."
I said: "Die, heretic scum," and pushed him off.
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I would like to thank the both of you for explaining scripture and it's teachings in the Christian church to me. Especially since you both know so much more about it than I do. I love how you are so willing to listen to other people and take in what they tell you in such an open minded way....
Now let me show you just how far from the truth you are... answer this question - and please, don't anyone else tell them the answer:
What does the word "church" mean?
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@jolly said in The circular firing squad:
The Presbyterians have gone down a rabbit hole in the U.S., which is why they are a dying church.
Have their numbers gone down more than those of other denominations?
@klaus said in The circular firing squad:
@jolly said in The circular firing squad:
The Presbyterians have gone down a rabbit hole in the U.S., which is why they are a dying church.
Have their numbers gone down more than those of other denominations?
Their numbers gave been in decline for over fifty years. In just the last fifteen they are down about 40%. That's bad, but many of the Mainline protestant churches are in the same boat.
To be fair, churches in general are down, many not as much, though.
IMO, a lot of the cause is a falling away from Biblical Truth. Attendance has waxed and waned throughout the centuries, but in many churches today, the social club aspect has taken priority over Biblical teaching. When your church is not based on the rock of Christ, and is based on whims of the moment, there is no foundation for long term stability.
Another pet peeve of mine is the current "Love of Christ" movement . Yes, God is Love. But He is so much more. God is Justice and the final Judge of mankind. There is a right way to live and a sinful way to live. As much as God may love us, He will judge us. At that point, we will have to account for all of our past misdeeds and sins of commission and ommission. Some of us will spend eternity in Heaven. Others in Hell.
I think churches that try to preach the entire Word and not just what they like, will be the most successful over time.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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I would like to thank the both of you for explaining scripture and it's teachings in the Christian church to me. Especially since you both know so much more about it than I do. I love how you are so willing to listen to other people and take in what they tell you in such an open minded way....
Now let me show you just how far from the truth you are... answer this question - and please, don't anyone else tell them the answer:
What does the word "church" mean?
The English language word "church" is from the Old English word cirice, derived from West Germanic *kirika, which in turn comes from the Greek κυριακή kuriakē, meaning "of the Lord" (possessive form of κύριος kurios "ruler" or "lord").
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The English language word "church" is from the Old English word cirice, derived from West Germanic *kirika, which in turn comes from the Greek κυριακή kuriakē, meaning "of the Lord" (possessive form of κύριος kurios "ruler" or "lord").
@bachophile said in The circular firing squad:
The English language word "church" is from the Old English word cirice, derived from West Germanic *kirika, which in turn comes from the Greek κυριακή kuriakē, meaning "of the Lord" (possessive form of κύριος kurios "ruler" or "lord").
That's nice. But I want them to tell me what they think it means. Since it is being used in the context of the Christian Church", I want them to tell me what the word "church" means in that context.
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@klaus said in The circular firing squad:
@jolly said in The circular firing squad:
The Presbyterians have gone down a rabbit hole in the U.S., which is why they are a dying church.
Have their numbers gone down more than those of other denominations?
Their numbers gave been in decline for over fifty years. In just the last fifteen they are down about 40%. That's bad, but many of the Mainline protestant churches are in the same boat.
To be fair, churches in general are down, many not as much, though.
IMO, a lot of the cause is a falling away from Biblical Truth. Attendance has waxed and waned throughout the centuries, but in many churches today, the social club aspect has taken priority over Biblical teaching. When your church is not based on the rock of Christ, and is based on whims of the moment, there is no foundation for long term stability.
Another pet peeve of mine is the current "Love of Christ" movement . Yes, God is Love. But He is so much more. God is Justice and the final Judge of mankind. There is a right way to live and a sinful way to live. As much as God may love us, He will judge us. At that point, we will have to account for all of our past misdeeds and sins of commission and ommission. Some of us will spend eternity in Heaven. Others in Hell.
I think churches that try to preach the entire Word and not just what they like, will be the most successful over time.
Actually, you weren't clear who you were referring to by 'both of you' since more than two of us were in the discussion
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I'll answer anyway - I was taught that it meant the group of Christian believers - i.e. all Christians.
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I would like to thank the both of you for explaining scripture and it's teachings in the Christian church to me. Especially since you both know so much more about it than I do. I love how you are so willing to listen to other people and take in what they tell you in such an open minded way....
Now let me show you just how far from the truth you are... answer this question - and please, don't anyone else tell them the answer:
What does the word "church" mean?
@larry said in The circular firing squad:
I love how you are so willing to listen to other people and take in what they tell you in such an open minded way....
Now, Larry, would you explain the word 'ironic' to me?
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I would like to thank the both of you for explaining scripture and it's teachings in the Christian church to me. Especially since you both know so much more about it than I do. I love how you are so willing to listen to other people and take in what they tell you in such an open minded way....
Now let me show you just how far from the truth you are... answer this question - and please, don't anyone else tell them the answer:
What does the word "church" mean?
@larry said in The circular firing squad:
I would like to thank the both of you for explaining scripture and it's teachings in the Christian church to me. Especially since you both know so much more about it than I do. I love how you are so willing to listen to other people and take in what they tell you in such an open minded way....
Now let me show you just how far from the truth you are... answer this question - and please, don't anyone else tell them the answer:
What does the word "church" mean?
Not sure if I am one of the two you are referring, but i will answer either case.
To me, the church is a group of people that have faith in the same things in relation to religion. Of course, it can also mean the physical building that was built to hold the people.
It is kind of "funny", but when I think of temple or mosque, I think of the physical building. I dont think of temple as a group of people.
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@taiwan_girl said in The circular firing squad:
To me, the church is a group of people that have faith in the same things in relation to religion
Yeah, I'll buy that as one example.
If you substitute "far-left progressivism" in place of "religion" then it becomes accurately descriptive nicely contemporary. At least that is what's being touted by guys like Douglas Murray, Rubin, Peterson, and other liberals.
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When I was a kid, we were forced to learn The Apostles Creed by heart, the theory being it would take our minds off masturbation, and the vicar got very animated over the phrase 'The holy catholic church', since it had a vague scent of Papism. It was explained to us in great, and frankly rather tedious detail that the word 'catholic' referred to the 'whole church' - i.e. Church of England. The rest of you assholes were considered to be mostly firewood in waiting.
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@doctor-phibes said in The circular firing squad:
@klaus said in The circular firing squad:
Which, by the way, is a reason why I don't understand why a few of us never want to meet or see anyone else from the forum. Makes me wonder whether they pretend to be something different from what they really are.
It might surprise a few people here to learn that I am actually an MMA fighter. Particularly those who've met me.
It's true and he's undefeated! . Of course, MMA stands for 'My Mom's Aunt'.
@mik said in The circular firing squad:
@doctor-phibes said in The circular firing squad:
@klaus said in The circular firing squad:
Which, by the way, is a reason why I don't understand why a few of us never want to meet or see anyone else from the forum. Makes me wonder whether they pretend to be something different from what they really are.
It might surprise a few people here to learn that I am actually an MMA fighter. Particularly those who've met me.
It's true and he's undefeated! . Of course, MMA stands for 'My Mom's Aunt'.
Nooooooooooo!!! Not his sweet Auntie Brenda!
