Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19
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@Klaus said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
STEM and only STEM is shoved down our throats today, so much so that the arts and humanities are being demonized.
By whom? Also, who shoves down STEM our throats? If anything, there's a crisis of scientific thinking. For the first time in 300 years, it's under attack from both the left and the right.
Guidance counselors, teachers, parents, job ads, friends, neighbors, etc., etc. I can't tell you how many people I went to school with, worked with, or met who wanted to study something in the arts and humanities, but their parents saw no value in it so they refused to pay tuition unless they changed majors. It's a very common story. My own parents thought I had lost my mind when I told them what I wanted to get my Master's in. If you want a perfect illustration of this, ask Ax about it.
And no, it's not more under attack, we're just able to see it online for the first time in 300 years.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
@Klaus said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
STEM and only STEM is shoved down our throats today, so much so that the arts and humanities are being demonized.
By whom? Also, who shoves down STEM our throats? If anything, there's a crisis of scientific thinking. For the first time in 300 years, it's under attack from both the left and the right.
Also, the fucking poetry doesn't even rhyme.
Rigid metrical structures are a symptom of cultural hegemony and patriarchal tyranny. You don't believe me, go ask Judith Butler.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
@Klaus said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
I hope he doesn't become too religious now.
Klaus, he's done an entire lecture series on Genesis. Maps of Meaning is all about a comprehensive analysis of the Bible, Egyptian mythology, and Mesopotamian mythology.
If you don't like listening to a religious perspective then there's absolutely no point in you listening to him about anything.
There's a difference between a religious perspective and people who are too religious. People who are too religious never seem able to grasp this.
I recently contacted an old friend. After about three emails he'd started asking me whether I'd been saved, and told me that my time was short. Fuck that for a game of soldiers. Of course, he thought he was doing me a favour.
He was, you ungrateful bastard.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Aqua-Letifer said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
Guidance counselors, teachers, parents, job ads, friends, neighbors, etc., etc. I can't tell you how many people I went to school with, worked with, or met who wanted to study something in the arts and humanities, but their parents saw no value in it so they refused to pay tuition unless they changed majors. It's a very common story. My own parents thought I had lost my mind when I told them what I wanted to get my Master's in.
Hm. I think you are confusing two things here: 1) The value of the arts and humanities for mankind, 2) The value of the arts and humanities as a career choice. It just happens to be the case that, in many of these domains, there are less jobs than graduates, hence it is not necessarily a wise idea to graduate in that domain. I for one wouldn't stop my kids from studying a humanities/arts subject, but I would ask questions and make sure that they fully understand all the potential consequences. That's the job of a good parent. All this has nothing to do with point 1) from above.
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@Jolly said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
@Klaus said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
I hope he doesn't become too religious now.
Klaus, he's done an entire lecture series on Genesis. Maps of Meaning is all about a comprehensive analysis of the Bible, Egyptian mythology, and Mesopotamian mythology.
If you don't like listening to a religious perspective then there's absolutely no point in you listening to him about anything.
There's a difference between a religious perspective and people who are too religious. People who are too religious never seem able to grasp this.
I recently contacted an old friend. After about three emails he'd started asking me whether I'd been saved, and told me that my time was short. Fuck that for a game of soldiers. Of course, he thought he was doing me a favour.
He was, you ungrateful bastard.
The really funny thing is that he's a Muslim. No lie.
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@Klaus said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
Hm. I think you are confusing two things here: 1) The value of the arts and humanities for mankind, 2) The value of the arts and humanities as a career choice.
I'm absolutely not doing that. College is expensive as hell. It shouldn't be merely an extended trial period for your job. You should spend that time also deciding what your life is going to be about: your job, sure, but also what's meaningful to you outside of your job, how you're going to navigate your relationships with your family and friends after you start out into the world, what you're going to do about starting a family of your own, etc.
I also see no problem with studying one subject in college and working in an unrelated field after graduation. The importance of your major has seriously diminishing returns the longer you've been out of school.
It just happens to be the case that, in many of these domains, there are less jobs than graduates, hence it is not necessarily a wise idea to graduate in that domain. I for one wouldn't stop my kids from studying a humanities/arts subject, but I would ask questions and make sure that they fully understand all the potential consequences.
I think similarly: it's bad to put all your eggs into one basket. But while everyone knows it's bad to go all in on a theatre degree with delusions of becoming a Hollywood actor and no practical planning whatsoever, far more ignored is the pitfall of picking something practical as a major, studying that, and faffing about in your off hours without ever figuring out what you need in your life to make it balanced and worthwhile. That's how you get basketcases in office jobs and middle-aged affairs.
As for (1), lack of formal education leads to lack of appreciation in later life. The arts and humanities are absolutely neglected in our society today. Nonsense self-help books are among the top sellers in bookstores for a reason. Jocko Willink is awesome, but there's absolutely nothing new about Extreme Ownership. It's just Marcus Aurelius for people who have no idea who that is.
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Why does higher education have to have a single purpose?
Skill training is of course a major component of higher education. More general "cultivation of the mind and character" (to quote Humbold) is another major component.
One of these isn't much worth without the other.
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@Klaus said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
Why does higher education have to have a single purpose?
Skill training is of course a major component of higher education. More general "cultivation of the mind and character" (to quote Humbold) is another major component.
One of these isn't much worth without the other.
Lots of mind cultivation goes on in common core, amirite @Rainman?
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Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Jolly said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
I think STEM education combined with classic liberal arts classes, makes for a well-rounded young person.
I'd agree, except I would use the acronym STEAM.
The arts are not just music of course. But including the arts in general interjects the creative component, the entrepreneurial side, the "right brain" side even though that's inaccurate of how the brain works.As for Horace's Common Core bait, nah, I'm swimming away from that rant for now.
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@Rainman said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
I'd agree, except I would use the acronym STEAM.
I don't like it because it's still unbalanced.
Science
Technology
Engineering
Arts
MathematicsJoke.
Oh and by the way, true entrepreneurs (read: not just business owners) have much, much more in common with arts students than business students.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
Oh and by the way, true entrepreneurs (read: not just business owners) have much, much more in common with arts students than business students.
Very true. That's something Peterson covered as well. Creaters create the idea and the business, then the left-brainers are needed to run it because creative people can't do it, don't want to do it, get bored, get overwhelmed with the day-to-day perfunctory tasks, run off with the secretary, eat too much, get fat, invent a new diet gadget, hire middle-managers to run the new business, entrepreneur runs away from the daily grind, starts drinking, stays drunk, eats too much, gets fatter, joins TNCR, and so on.
We've all been there, no question. -
Education is extremely important.
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@Horace said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
So maybe this is not a simple conversation.
I have my ideas, but no, I really don't think it is.
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Speaking of Jordan Peterson, he released a podcast the other day of him reading his own forward to the 50th anniversary edition of Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago (abridged).
It's fantastic. He obviously spent a lot of time on it. He called being asked to write that forward 'the greatest honor ever bestowed upon him' and treated it with the seriousness you would expect from that.
DON’T let them eat cake.
- RFK Jr -
@jon-nyc said in Jordan Peterson Video new Oct. 19:
Speaking of Jordan Peterson, he released a podcast the other day of him reading his own forward to the 50th anniversary edition of Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago (abridged).
It's fantastic. He obviously spent a lot of time on it. He called being asked to write the forward 'the greatest honor ever bestowed upon him' and treated it with the seriousness you would expect from that.
Already got me a copy. Yeah, it's awesome.
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Hear him read it.
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I got about half a chapter into that book, and was ready to open a vein. I don't think I made it any further.
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Gulag Archipelago? Abridged or original?
At any rate the podcast is just him reading the forward.
