Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar

[Horace]

Yes i understand that you think complaining about both sides is a get out of personal responsibility free card. But actually it's not, and as you've blamed Trump and his supporters for their culpability for the riots, I blame you for your part in the righteous outrage that TDS sufferers have very intentionally fomented everywhere.

[jon-nyc]

A burden I guess I’ll have to just bear.

[Horace]

Please bear it like a princess bears a tiara, till you lose patience and let the inner 16 year old boy out with his insults. That's the most fun cycle to watch.

[jon-nyc]

You can’t get through three posts without an insult and I’m the sixteen year old?

[Doctor Phibes]

You two should get a room separate sub-forum.

[George K]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:

You two should get a room separate sub-forum.

Jon's a mod. He could probably set it up...

[Doctor Phibes]

@George-K said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:

@Doctor-Phibes said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:

You two should get a room separate sub-forum.

Jon's a mod. He could probably set it up...

He could, and then not allow Horace posting privileges.

[Horace]

jon's already blocked all my great ideas from his mind. It's not dissimilar to blocking me from posting to a private sub forum.

[jon-nyc]

It would be the other way around. I’d set up a subforum for your great ideas and then never go there.

[taiwan_girl]

@jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:

Keep in mind all of this is in response to Trump warning us about what Biden’s America might look like by showing us footage of what Trump’s America actually looks like.

I have to admit this is kind of funny. President Trump shows videos and talks about what is happening as what would happen under President Biden.

Wait a second????!!! Who is the president right now? LOL

[jon-nyc]

Yeah the subtext of the convention was basically ‘if Trump were president none of this would be happening’.

[Horace]

It makes perfect sense for Trump to point to the riots and run against them. The only people guffawing are the people who don't like him anyway and are only too happy to blame bad stuff on him, no matter how flimsy the connection.

[taiwan_girl]

@Horace I agree it makes perfect sense, but don’t you see the ironic in what he says?

[Horace]

Yes, I understand why you think it is ironic.

[Rainman]

Jon said somewhere above:

What I am doing is saying that
(1) his general divisiveness feeds this
(2) his words and deeds have served to fan the flames
(3). Different words and deeds could have cooled the flames or at least fanned them less

Funny, that's EXACTLY what I thought about Obama. I remember times (e.g., black college prof breaking into his own house, police showed up) as well as other times when Obama actually invited the issue (person) to the White House.
And, I remember thinking how he smiles and acts all superior-like with his lofty intellectualism, where it was obvious what he was doing was fanning the flames to deteriorate race relations. I still think Obama does the same thing: pretend to unite while actually working to divide, the guy in general doesn't like white people.

So we're back to Sweep Under Your Own Porch land.

[Jolly]

@Mik said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:

@jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:

@Horace said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:

point to the riots and say "this is Trump's America". Even jon buys into that tribal mantra. As ideas go, it is not a rational one.

Well, to be fair I use that phrase to point out the absurdity of Trump calling it ‘Biden’s America’.

Having said that, surely presidents will differ in where they fall on the (as W might put it) “uniter vs divider’ scale. Surely presidents differ in how they respond to widespread protests, from taking steps to lower the pressure on one hand to publicly antagonizing and threatening on the other.

Honestly I think people here say to themselves “but these rioters aren’t by and large Trump supporters” and from that facile comment completely absolve him from any causal role.

OK, I'll go there with you. Show me how Trump has a causal role in the current situation. What has he done to cause or increase police brutality toward blacks? To diminish civil rights? To my eyes these riots and protests started before he even took office. If you want to say that it is because some people do not like Trump and don't want him to be president, fine. But it's not as far as I can see attributable to anything he has actually done.

Nah, Ferguson didn't happen. Nor did either of the Los Angeles riots. Or the absolute clusterfuck that happened in Detroit. Or the murder rate in certain sections of Chicago. Or the challenge that I double-dog dare John to stroll down MLK Boulevard in New Orleans at 3 AM.

Let's call a spade a spade, shall we?

The fact is that a large percentage of the black community are nothing but a pile of do-nothing, go nowhere, drug-dealing, violent, low-life muthafuckers. And we ought to be proud, because we helped make them that way. Take away a man's dignity and you have less of a man. Take away his responsibilities and you have less of a man. Take away his pride and you have less of a man. Reinforce his expectations of inadequacy and feed him a steady stream from the government teat and marvel in what the Do-gooders have created...A permanent class of gibmedats.The

God save us from the Do-gooders.

Give the black man a shot at a good education or training. Give him access to business planning and teach him how to use a receptive banking system to grow his business. And his dreams. Then, if he fails, he fails. There is no one to feel pity for and no one to blame.

[Doctor Phibes]

@taiwan_girl said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:

@Horace I agree it makes perfect sense, but don’t you see the ironic in what he says?

He's blamed the last four years on Obama, he can blame the next four on Biden.

[Axtremus]

@Mik said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:

@jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:

@Horace said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:

point to the riots and say "this is Trump's America". Even jon buys into that tribal mantra. As ideas go, it is not a rational one.

Well, to be fair I use that phrase to point out the absurdity of Trump calling it ‘Biden’s America’.

OK, I'll go there with you. Show me how Trump has a causal role in the current situation.

A Vox article by Matthew Yglesias showing what @Mik asked:

https://www.vox.com/21408085/donald-trump-america-rioting

Mr. Yglesias's main points seem to be:

• Trump is defunding the police
• Trump encourages bad policing
• (this one is on sin of omission) Trump makes no effort at working out police reform package with the legislative branch

[Kincaid]

@jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:

Both of you are essentially arguing that he couldn’t have prevented the outbreak of protests ergo how they ran their course was out of his hands.

Like nothing else he could do or say could matter in how the protests/riots unfolded.

I agree. Trump should have come out after Floyd was killed and said, "If I had a son, he'd look like George. I mean, if I had banged Omarosa."