Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar

Horace

To be clear jon, you're claiming that had Trump invited a few representatives from the rioter side to discuss possible solutions after the Floyd shooting, the Blake riots would have been mitigated?

Horace

As others have pointed out jon, if there were political solutions to these issues, the democrat high melanin politicians and police chiefs necessary to enact them would have already enacted them locally. They have all the power in these places locally.

Horace

@jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:

His divisiveness obviously played a role in the political tensions leading up to it (Horace agrees here with the causal chain, but assigns moral responsibility for his divisiveness to the outgroup).

And you simultaneously revel in the TDS orgy while taking no moral responsibility for it, because well of course good people hate Trump, I mean duh, it shouldn't need justification.

jon-nyc

Here’s what I’m not doing, largely because it’s impossible:

laying out a specific causal chain from Trumps actions to the behavior of several million protesters and a few thousand rioters.
claiming that I know what the mitigation effects would be for particular actions that trump could have taken

What I am doing is saying that

(1) his general divisiveness feeds this

(2) his words and deeds have served to fan the flames

(3). Different words and deeds could have cooled the flames or at least fanned them less

Horace

"He could have done better" is vacuous. And his divisiveness is an all time great self-fulfilling prophecy that you gladly participate in and take no personal responsibility for.

Horace

jon, it's ok and par for the course that you actually have no interesting points to make here, and are really only attempting to establish the phenotype of a clear headed calm appraiser of the situation. We are all as impressed with it as you are. Now please feel free to go eat lunch.

jon-nyc

I agree it’s vacuous. Stop saying that.

Maybe phrase it as ‘Trump fanned the flames in word and deed because he’s not up to the job of being presidential. He’s just the leader of a tribe’.

And then maybe take some responsibility for why you guys elected someone like that.

Mik

So it is all the things you can think of that he MIGHT have done but did not that is the causal relationship. Got it.

jon-nyc

sigh

Mik

Look, Jon, it's very simple. You made an assertion you cannot support other than with your own biases. The truth is the protestors are much more akin to the brownshirts than anything on the right.

jon-nyc

No you misunderstood the assertion.

Mik

Yeah, that must be it. I misunderstood

Horace

@jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar:

I agree it’s vacuous. Stop saying that.

Maybe phrase it as ‘Trump fanned the flames in word and deed because he’s not up to the job of being presidential. He’s just the leader of a tribe’.

And then maybe take some responsibility for why you guys elected someone like that.

Yes please let me join in on the flurry of good willed responsibility taking as proposed by responsibility taker in chief jon-nyc. It's not his fault that he's never done or thought anything wrong, it's just how perfect people are. Why can't TNCR and WTF understand that?

jon-nyc

Your frequent resort to the ad hominem is not a sign of strength or cleverness.

Horace

And your frequent attacks then retreats into princess jon mode is fucking small and pathetic, salesman.

jon-nyc

You seriously need to work on that resentment Horace. It’s unhealthy.

Horace

By all means feel free to attempt to stand on the strength of your ideas, jon. That's why we're here.

jon-nyc

TNCR: Come for the ideas, stay for the ad hominems.

Horace

Are ad hominems another thing you take no responsibility for jon? I mean your lack of integrity for being a guy who is more than willing to get down and dirty may be such that you're unwilling to even admit that you throw stones yourself. So I'm curious if you're capable of admitting that. The innocent princess act might be bought by a couple people here but the number is diminishing.

bachophile

Jon if it’s any consolation, I get what u r saying.

Not that I’m taking sides....lol

But I do get it.

The New Coffee Room

Andrew Sullivan: This is very Weimar