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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Subsidizing Homeborrowership

Subsidizing Homeborrowership

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  • LuFins DadL Offline
    LuFins DadL Offline
    LuFins Dad
    wrote last edited by
    #3

    This is why you don’t elect democrats to office.

    The Brad

    1 Reply Last reply
    • jon-nycJ Online
      jon-nycJ Online
      jon-nyc
      wrote last edited by jon-nyc
      #4

      I ran the numbers real quick on the median mortgage (at origination) of 324k after 10 years (average time we own homes).

      At selling time you’d have 17k of equity vs 50k. That house you got the 324k mortgage for is valued at ~410k.

      17k wouldn’t cover closing costs. You built essentially no equity unless the value increased.

      “In the 25 years that I served in the United States Congress, Republicans never, ever, one time agreed on what a health care proposal should look like. Not once.”

      • Former Speaker of the House John Boehner
      LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

        I ran the numbers real quick on the median mortgage (at origination) of 324k after 10 years (average time we own homes).

        At selling time you’d have 17k of equity vs 50k. That house you got the 324k mortgage for is valued at ~410k.

        17k wouldn’t cover closing costs. You built essentially no equity unless the value increased.

        LuFins DadL Offline
        LuFins DadL Offline
        LuFins Dad
        wrote last edited by
        #5

        @jon-nyc said in Subsidizing Homeborrowership:

        I ran the numbers real quick on the median mortgage (at origination) of 324k after 10 years (average time we own homes).

        At selling time you’d have 17k of equity vs 50k. That house you got the 324k mortgage for is valued at ~410k.

        17k wouldn’t cover closing costs. You built essentially no equity unless the value increased.

        As a comparison the 30yr mortgage would provide 51k of equity.

        In all fairness, you would also have to factor in the home’s current market value after 10 years. That would likely bump up the equity substantially;

        The Brad

        1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ Online
          jon-nycJ Online
          jon-nyc
          wrote last edited by jon-nyc
          #6

          I did mention that that would be the entirety of your equity. Though that depends on population growth outpacing housing stock growth, which, while always true in our lifetimes, is really now dependent on immigration.

          “In the 25 years that I served in the United States Congress, Republicans never, ever, one time agreed on what a health care proposal should look like. Not once.”

          • Former Speaker of the House John Boehner
          1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nyc
            wrote last edited by jon-nyc
            #7

            Why not perpetual mortgages?

            The UK has perpetual bonds. Some are left over from the War of Austrian Succession (~1750). They used to fuck with our modeling.

            It formalizes the idea that you make payments as low as possible and just accept that your equity will only be from appreciation

            “In the 25 years that I served in the United States Congress, Republicans never, ever, one time agreed on what a health care proposal should look like. Not once.”

            • Former Speaker of the House John Boehner
            1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ Online
              jon-nycJ Online
              jon-nyc
              wrote last edited by
              #8

              Of course it only lowers your payment in our example by $21 a month. lol

              “In the 25 years that I served in the United States Congress, Republicans never, ever, one time agreed on what a health care proposal should look like. Not once.”

              • Former Speaker of the House John Boehner
              1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote last edited by
                #9

                By the way it looks like the UK called all its remaining perpetual bonds in 2015 - after I was out of the business. (They were always callable)

                “In the 25 years that I served in the United States Congress, Republicans never, ever, one time agreed on what a health care proposal should look like. Not once.”

                • Former Speaker of the House John Boehner
                1 Reply Last reply
                • 89th8 Offline
                  89th8 Offline
                  89th
                  wrote last edited by
                  #10

                  You know, for having the most powerful country with the best GDP and all that... we sure are putting a ton of bandaids over near-existential economic problems.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • HoraceH Offline
                    HoraceH Offline
                    Horace
                    wrote last edited by
                    #11

                    It's easy to understand where the economic populism of the young generation is coming from. And it's not stupid, not at all. Individual policies might be, but not the perspective on unfairness and hopelessness.

                    Education is extremely important.

                    LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ Online
                      jon-nycJ Online
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote last edited by jon-nyc
                      #12

                      I couldn’t agree more.

                      If we would just make it legal to build housing everywhere it would go a long way to reliving it, IMO.

                      (When I say ‘everywhere’ I mean throughout the country, I don’t mean, say, in national parks).

                      “In the 25 years that I served in the United States Congress, Republicans never, ever, one time agreed on what a health care proposal should look like. Not once.”

                      • Former Speaker of the House John Boehner
                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote last edited by
                        #13

                        https://www.politico.com/news/2025/11/10/trumps-50-year-mortgage-plan-is-getting-panned-allies-blame-this-man-00645654?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

                        “In the 25 years that I served in the United States Congress, Republicans never, ever, one time agreed on what a health care proposal should look like. Not once.”

                        • Former Speaker of the House John Boehner
                        AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
                        • HoraceH Horace

                          It's easy to understand where the economic populism of the young generation is coming from. And it's not stupid, not at all. Individual policies might be, but not the perspective on unfairness and hopelessness.

                          LuFins DadL Offline
                          LuFins DadL Offline
                          LuFins Dad
                          wrote last edited by
                          #14

                          @Horace said in Subsidizing Homeborrowership:

                          It's easy to understand where the economic populism of the young generation is coming from. And it's not stupid, not at all. Individual policies might be, but not the perspective on unfairness and hopelessness.

                          Just wait till the AI layoffs hit.

                          While I’m an optimist and think there will be potential massive economic opportunities, that will be after quite a bit of economic pain for many people….

                          The Brad

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • MikM Away
                            MikM Away
                            Mik
                            wrote last edited by Mik
                            #15

                            Agreed, LuFin. I'm gently coaxing my daughter to get on top of this and be the one who pilots using it in project management at her firm. i say gently because she's up to her ass in alligators at the moment through poorly written contracts and scopes.

                            "You cannot subsidize irresponsibility and expect people to become more responsible." — Thomas Sowell

                            89th8 1 Reply Last reply
                            • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                              https://www.politico.com/news/2025/11/10/trumps-50-year-mortgage-plan-is-getting-panned-allies-blame-this-man-00645654?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

                              AxtremusA Offline
                              AxtremusA Offline
                              Axtremus
                              wrote last edited by
                              #16

                              @jon-nyc said in Subsidizing Homeborrowership:

                              https://www.politico.com/news/2025/11/10/trumps-50-year-mortgage-plan-is-getting-panned-allies-blame-this-man-00645654?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it

                              It’s like they don’t expect Trump to be able to think for himself. How rude!

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • jon-nycJ Online
                                jon-nycJ Online
                                jon-nyc
                                wrote last edited by
                                #17

                                Very illuminating.

                                IMG_8730.jpeg

                                “In the 25 years that I served in the United States Congress, Republicans never, ever, one time agreed on what a health care proposal should look like. Not once.”

                                • Former Speaker of the House John Boehner
                                LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                  Very illuminating.

                                  IMG_8730.jpeg

                                  LuFins DadL Offline
                                  LuFins DadL Offline
                                  LuFins Dad
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #18

                                  @jon-nyc said in Subsidizing Homeborrowership:

                                  Very illuminating.

                                  IMG_8730.jpeg

                                  Kind of surprising that it went up that much. Yes, I get that interest rates nearly doubled, but I would still think that the vast majority of mortgages pre-date the rate increases and wouldn’t be affected. Plus, there’s been a substantial decrease in home purchases over the last three years with the higher rates, and to top it off, cash buyers represent over a third of those new home sales…The only way this chart makes sense to me is if more people had variable rate mortgages than I had supposed.

                                  The Brad

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • LuFins DadL Offline
                                    LuFins DadL Offline
                                    LuFins Dad
                                    wrote last edited by LuFins Dad
                                    #19

                                    Yeah, the more I think about it, that must be based on new mortgages only.

                                    Edit… Unless Interest only mortgages have made another comeback? I know a lot of investors use them when buying vacation rental properties….

                                    The Brad

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • MikM Mik

                                      Agreed, LuFin. I'm gently coaxing my daughter to get on top of this and be the one who pilots using it in project management at her firm. i say gently because she's up to her ass in alligators at the moment through poorly written contracts and scopes.

                                      89th8 Offline
                                      89th8 Offline
                                      89th
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #20

                                      @Mik said in Subsidizing Homeborrowership:

                                      Agreed, LuFin. I'm gently coaxing my daughter to get on top of this and be the one who pilots using it in project management at her firm. i say gently because she's up to her ass in alligators at the moment through poorly written contracts and scopes.

                                      Smart, if you can get informed NOW (certs, training, youtube videos, etc) and help lead the adoption of AI tools, you will cover your butt for a few years at least. I'll start a new thread with a fun AI game called gandalf...

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • LuFins DadL Offline
                                        LuFins DadL Offline
                                        LuFins Dad
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #21

                                        @jon-nyc any ideas of the sourcing of that graph? I’m seeing it pop up on Facebook, and while I see they cite Bloomberg and several realtor groups, there’s no actual citation or methodology for the graph listed. I’m strongly thinking it’s BS or poorly correlated data at the best.

                                        The Brad

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • jon-nycJ Online
                                          jon-nycJ Online
                                          jon-nyc
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #22

                                          I don't remember the original source, it was retweeted by a credible account. I agree it has to be newly originated mortgages.

                                          “In the 25 years that I served in the United States Congress, Republicans never, ever, one time agreed on what a health care proposal should look like. Not once.”

                                          • Former Speaker of the House John Boehner
                                          1 Reply Last reply
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