Maybe it's just an intense dislike?
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Personally, in my small opinion, I think it is ridiculous to say that the democrats hate america.
I think it is equally ridiculous to say the President Trump hates America.
People have different vision/ideas on what they think America should be, and there seems to be a very quick response to say that the other side "hates" America if their vision/idea is different from yours.
The US is very different from 200 years ago and very different from 100 years ago, and I think it will look very different 100 years in teh future.
People who wanted change 200 years ago did not hate America. People who wanted things to stay the same 200 years ago did not hate America.
You can love a country and still want change. You can love a country and want it to be the same.
Lets say you are a parent and have a kid that does things you dont like. You can want them to change, want them to do things differently, but you probably still love them very much.
Lets say you are a parent and have a kid that wants to change and you want them to stay the same (for example, take over a company business). You can want them to stay the same, want them to be like you, but you probably still love them very much.
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@taiwan_girl said in Maybe it's just an intense dislike?:
Personally, in my small opinion, I think it is ridiculous to say that the democrats hate america.
I think it is equally ridiculous to say the President Trump hates America.
People have different vision/ideas on what they think America should be, and there seems to be a very quick response to say that the other side "hates" America if their vision/idea is different from yours.
The US is very different from 200 years ago and very different from 100 years ago, and I think it will look very different 100 years in teh future.
People who wanted change 200 years ago did not hate America. People who wanted things to stay the same 200 years ago did not hate America.
You can love a country and still want change. You can love a country and want it to be the same.
Lets say you are a parent and have a kid that does things you dont like. You can want them to change, want them to do things differently, but you probably still love them very much.
Lets say you are a parent and have a kid that wants to change and you want them to stay the same (for example, take over a company business). You can want them to stay the same, want them to be like you, but you probably still love them very much.
Did you not watch any of the first night of the DNC Convention? Very, very little positive about America.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Jolly said in Maybe it's just an intense dislike?:
Did you not watch any of the first night of the DNC Convention? Very, very little positive about America.
No, I did not. Probably will not watch any of the Republic convention either.
Did you watch or read President Trumps inauguration speech? Very little positive about America.
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@taiwan_girl said in Maybe it's just an intense dislike?:
@Jolly said in Maybe it's just an intense dislike?:
Did you not watch any of the first night of the DNC Convention? Very, very little positive about America.
No, I did not. Probably will not watch any of the Republic convention either.
Did you watch or read President Trumps inauguration speech? Very little positive about America.
If you are going to defend it, watch it.
BTW, Trump's speech:
REMARKS OF PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP – AS PREPARED FOR DELIVERY
INAUGURAL ADDRESS
FRIDAY, JANUARY 20, 2017
WASHINGTON, D.C.As Prepared for Delivery –
Chief Justice Roberts, President Carter, President Clinton, President Bush, President Obama, fellow Americans, and people of the world: thank you.
We, the citizens of America, are now joined in a great national effort to rebuild our country and to restore its promise for all of our people.
Together, we will determine the course of America and the world for years to come.
We will face challenges. We will confront hardships. But we will get the job done.
Every four years, we gather on these steps to carry out the orderly and peaceful transfer of power, and we are grateful to President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama for their gracious aid throughout this transition. They have been magnificent.
Today’s ceremony, however, has very special meaning. Because today we are not merely transferring power from one Administration to another, or from one party to another – but we are transferring power from Washington, D.C. and giving it back to you, the American People.
For too long, a small group in our nation’s Capital has reaped the rewards of government while the people have borne the cost.
Washington flourished – but the people did not share in its wealth.
Politicians prospered – but the jobs left, and the factories closed.
The establishment protected itself, but not the citizens of our country.
Their victories have not been your victories; their triumphs have not been your triumphs; and while they celebrated in our nation’s Capital, there was little to celebrate for struggling families all across our land.
That all changes – starting right here, and right now, because this moment is your moment: it belongs to you.
It belongs to everyone gathered here today and everyone watching all across America.
This is your day. This is your celebration.
And this, the United States of America, is your country.
What truly matters is not which party controls our government, but whether our government is controlled by the people.
January 20th 2017, will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again.
The forgotten men and women of our country will be forgotten no longer.
Everyone is listening to you now.
You came by the tens of millions to become part of a historic movement the likes of which the world has never seen before.
At the center of this movement is a crucial conviction: that a nation exists to serve its citizens.
Americans want great schools for their children, safe neighborhoods for their families, and good jobs for themselves.
These are the just and reasonable demands of a righteous public.
But for too many of our citizens, a different reality exists: Mothers and children trapped in poverty in our inner cities; rusted-out factories scattered like tombstones across the landscape of our nation; an education system, flush with cash, but which leaves our young and beautiful students deprived of knowledge; and the crime and gangs and drugs that have stolen too many lives and robbed our country of so much unrealized potential.
This American carnage stops right here and stops right now.
We are one nation – and their pain is our pain. Their dreams are our dreams; and their success will be our success. We share one heart, one home, and one glorious destiny.
The oath of office I take today is an oath of allegiance to all Americans.
For many decades, we’ve enriched foreign industry at the expense of American industry;
Subsidized the armies of other countries while allowing for the very sad depletion of our military;
We’ve defended other nation’s borders while refusing to defend our own;
And spent trillions of dollars overseas while America’s infrastructure has fallen into disrepair and decay.
We’ve made other countries rich while the wealth, strength, and confidence of our country has disappeared over the horizon.
One by one, the factories shuttered and left our shores, with not even a thought about the millions upon millions of American workers left behind.
The wealth of our middle class has been ripped from their homes and then redistributed across the entire world.
But that is the past. And now we are looking only to the future.
We assembled here today are issuing a new decree to be heard in every city, in every foreign capital, and in every hall of power.
From this day forward, a new vision will govern our land.
From this moment on, it’s going to be America First.
Every decision on trade, on taxes, on immigration, on foreign affairs, will be made to benefit American workers and American families.
We must protect our borders from the ravages of other countries making our products, stealing our companies, and destroying our jobs. Protection will lead to great prosperity and strength.
I will fight for you with every breath in my body – and I will never, ever let you down.
America will start winning again, winning like never before.
We will bring back our jobs. We will bring back our borders. We will bring back our wealth. And we will bring back our dreams.
We will build new roads, and highways, and bridges, and airports, and tunnels, and railways all across our wonderful nation.
We will get our people off of welfare and back to work – rebuilding our country with American hands and American labor.
We will follow two simple rules: Buy American and Hire American.
We will seek friendship and goodwill with the nations of the world – but we do so with the understanding that it is the right of all nations to put their own interests first.
We do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone, but rather to let it shine as an example for everyone to follow.
We will reinforce old alliances and form new ones – and unite the civilized world against Radical Islamic Terrorism, which we will eradicate completely from the face of the Earth.
At the bedrock of our politics will be a total allegiance to the United States of America, and through our loyalty to our country, we will rediscover our loyalty to each other.
When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.
The Bible tells us, “how good and pleasant it is when God’s people live together in unity.”
We must speak our minds openly, debate our disagreements honestly, but always pursue solidarity.
When America is united, America is totally unstoppable.
There should be no fear – we are protected, and we will always be protected.
We will be protected by the great men and women of our military and law enforcement and, most importantly, we are protected by God.
Finally, we must think big and dream even bigger.
In America, we understand that a nation is only living as long as it is striving.
We will no longer accept politicians who are all talk and no action – constantly complaining but never doing anything about it.
The time for empty talk is over.
Now arrives the hour of action.
Do not let anyone tell you it cannot be done. No challenge can match the heart and fight and spirit of America.
We will not fail. Our country will thrive and prosper again.
We stand at the birth of a new millennium, ready to unlock the mysteries of space, to free the Earth from the miseries of disease, and to harness the energies, industries and technologies of tomorrow.
A new national pride will stir our souls, lift our sights, and heal our divisions.
It is time to remember that old wisdom our soldiers will never forget: that whether we are black or brown or white, we all bleed the same red blood of patriots, we all enjoy the same glorious freedoms, and we all salute the same great American Flag.
And whether a child is born in the urban sprawl of Detroit or the windswept plains of Nebraska, they look up at the same night sky, they fill their heart with the same dreams, and they are infused with the breath of life by the same almighty Creator.
So to all Americans, in every city near and far, small and large, from mountain to mountain, and from ocean to ocean, hear these words:
You will never be ignored again.
Your voice, your hopes, and your dreams, will define our American destiny. And your courage and goodness and love will forever guide us along the way.
Together, We Will Make America Strong Again.
We Will Make America Wealthy Again.
We Will Make America Proud Again.
We Will Make America Safe Again.
And, Yes, Together, We Will Make America Great Again. Thank you, God Bless You, And God Bless America.
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Jolly I read the transcript. That is why I posted it.
Do you think it had a positive view of the US?
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@taiwan_girl said in Maybe it's just an intense dislike?:
Personally, in my small opinion, I think it is ridiculous to say that the democrats hate america.
I think it is equally ridiculous to say the President Trump hates America.
No, really, it's right there in their messaging. The average person - white middle class lunch pail sort - lives a life they do not deserve and should feel badly about it. That really is their messaging. What better definition of hating a country is there, than hating the average citizen of that country?
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@Copper said in Maybe it's just an intense dislike?:
There is a difference between admitting imperfection and hating.
The democrats hate the country.
I hear you - but all that seems to depend on your vantage point.
Some Democrats may hate things like - the NRA, the oil and gas industry, the police, the-unwoke, etc.
Some Republicans may hate things like - the ACLU, abortion infrastructure, the "green economy", the wokes, etc.
It seems like both parties could be interpreted as "hating" some aspects of the country. Does that mean they hate America?
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@Horace said in Maybe it's just an intense dislike?:
The "systemic white supremacy" messaging of the left should oblige any intellectually honest person to acknowledge the hatred of the country.
Well, let's get precise. I don't think Democrats hate America. Really I don't. I think a lot of them harbor disdain for white males. (And isn't finding white male complaints about racism contemptuous because blacks are the real oppressed tantamount to disdain for white males?)
Well actually it's a spectrum: some think it's obvious that no one should do white males any favors because they own the world or something, some think it's obvious that only good white males are the ones who are sorry they are, and yeah, some just straightup hate white males.
That's not all Democrats, though, I'll admit that. Some of them, I know, are fine people.
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@xenon said in Maybe it's just an intense dislike?:
It seems like both parties could be interpreted as "hating" some aspects of the country.
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In order to discuss something you have to admit that it exists and is measurable. Does hatred of America exist and is it measurable? Allow that and I think every participant in this thread knows that the left has more of it. Again, they base their messaging on it. And it's not necessarily inappropriate. Progressives are for change, conservatives are against change. Why is it so difficult to admit that the progressives hate more existing stuff?
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@Horace said in Maybe it's just an intense dislike?:
Why is it so difficult to admit that the progressives hate more existing stuff?
Meh. I think that's probably true.
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@Horace said in Maybe it's just an intense dislike?:
In order to discuss something you have to admit that it exists and is measurable. Does hatred of America exist and is it measurable? Allow that and I think every participant in this thread knows that the left has more of it. Again, they base their messaging on it. And it's not necessarily inappropriate. Progressives are for change, conservatives are against change. Why is it so difficult to admit that the progressives hate more existing stuff?
Yes, good way to put it. Generally speaking, the left wants change and therefore naturally doesn't like the status quo (in the extreme case, this includes traditions, monuments, white men in power, rich people), and generally speaking the right wants to preserve the status quo (in the extreme case, this means rejecting foreigners, keeping money, not spending taxes on those who didn't earn it).
And the problem, as I've said 1,000 times, is the media loves to focus on those extremes of the spectrum, (let's say, the far 15% on either side), whereas 70% of the country is made up of normal, reasonable, friendly people. Think about 70% of the people you see at the grocery store, or in the airport, or on a running path. Very much unlike what you see in the media, no?
To return to Horace's point, those fighting for change (on the left) pose more risk to that 70% whether they know it or not. They're part of the status quo. We, most of us here in TNCR, are part of the status quo.
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@taiwan_girl said in Maybe it's just an intense dislike?:
@Jolly I read the transcript. That is why I posted it.
Do you think it had a positive view of the US?
Yes, I do.
Read the speech. He's basically saying America has fallen away from original American values, but the American dream is still alive. We can do better. We can still achieve great things, because we are Americans. We have greatness in us, something not all citizens of other countries possess.
It's like a football coach making his team go back to practicing fundamentals. Vince Lombardi ran a G-sweep so much, the offense knew what they were running, the opposing defense knew what was coming, even the fans in the stands had a good idea what the play would be. But the Packers were so good fundamentally, they were unstoppable most of the time.
If Americans stick to the fundamentals...To our Constitution, to our rights, to the idea of a combined national interest, America can return to greatness. In fact, we can be better than we ever have.
To argue that is not positive is lunacy.
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I've mentioned the guy from my San Francisco piano teacher's studio here before - years later I discovered he has a newsletter, to which I now subscribe. He's a white ultra-progressive with an ivy league education. Here's a snip from today's newsletter:
As summer ends and school begins, support for Black Lives Matter has started to wane, particularly among white people. As Tre Johnson pointed out in Issue #250, Black people “know what happens next.” White people disengage, apologize for missing antiracist book club meetings, and return to prioritizing their comfort. (Evidence: The Democratic National Convention.)
The bar he sets for not being an evil white person, is to proactively support BLM et al by doing such things as going to anti-racist book club meetings. If you find it more comfortable to not spend your time and energy actively participating in things such as anti-racist book club meetings, you are part of the problem.
These are real words which reflect real thoughts from real people who are totally completely mainstream culturally and politically. I'm sorry but anybody who doesn't admit to the hatred that is an undercurrent of the modern left is simply afraid to say the truth out loud. Now your homework, for those of you who are afraid, is to reflect on why you have that fear. Ax, that homework is especially for you.
