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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. The Iran Nuclear Program thread

The Iran Nuclear Program thread

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  • A AndyD

    @Mik said in The Iran Nuclear Program thread:

    To use a nuke to prevent nukes would be the height of hypocrisy.

    That's an interesting statement. It must surely depend on intent?
    Batant aggression, self defence etc.

    When a person intends to kill you, has said so, written their intention for all to see, and is fastening a blade to a broom handle in order to kill you, is it wrong for you to use your spear to defend yourself preemptively?

    And in our case we would only be destroying their spear making capabilities. In the hope that they could eventually change. Maybe spend the billions on agriculture instead of spears.

    jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nyc
    wrote on last edited by
    #368

    @AndyD

    As fragile as it might have been at times, there’s a clear unwritten rule since 1945 that you don’t use nukes.

    How long after we did would Putin?

    Thank you for your attention to this matter.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • MikM Away
      MikM Away
      Mik
      wrote on last edited by
      #369

      Not going to happen until someone has their back against the wall.

      See “offramp”.

      "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

      1 Reply Last reply
      • MikM Away
        MikM Away
        Mik
        wrote on last edited by Mik
        #370

        I suspect the Iranian people as a whole have lost their fervor for spreading Islamic revolution now that they see their utter vulnerabilities. If they ever really had it. My impression is those who signed on to that did it for personal power, not ideology.

        "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

        kluursK 1 Reply Last reply
        • MikM Mik

          I suspect the Iranian people as a whole have lost their fervor for spreading Islamic revolution now that they see their utter vulnerabilities. If they ever really had it. My impression is those who signed on to that did it for personal power, not ideology.

          kluursK Offline
          kluursK Offline
          kluurs
          wrote on last edited by
          #371

          @Mik said in The Iran Nuclear Program thread:

          I suspect the Iranian people as a whole have lost their fervor for spreading Islamic revolution now that they see their utter vulnerabilities. If they ever really had it. My impression is those who signed on to that did it for personal power, not ideology.

          Iran is not the only nation where a group of religious fanatics have a degree of influence out of bounds with that of the majority of the population - part of the reason that Chris Hitchens had such disdain for religion.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by
            #372

            Cluster munitions used by Iran.

            Thank you for your attention to this matter.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • taiwan_girlT Offline
              taiwan_girlT Offline
              taiwan_girl
              wrote on last edited by
              #373

              🤕

              IMG_3099.jpg

              1 Reply Last reply
              • MikM Away
                MikM Away
                Mik
                wrote on last edited by
                #374

                I don't agree with everything this guy says, but it's worth listening to.

                https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/what-are-iran-s-retaliation-options-if-the-u-s-were-to-strike/vi-AA1H3KAp

                "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

                1 Reply Last reply
                • kluursK Offline
                  kluursK Offline
                  kluurs
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #375

                  Contrarian view

                  Link to video

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • MikM Away
                    MikM Away
                    Mik
                    wrote on last edited by Mik
                    #376

                    I hear what he says, but if you are not intending to enrich weapons grade materials, why do you go to the expense of hiding your facilities half a mile under a mountain where you have to build tunnels and power facilities into it? When your stated goal is death to <whoever we don't like today> and you are sponsoring attacks on that entity is it reasonable to believe you are not intending to develop the weapon?

                    "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

                    LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
                    • MikM Away
                      MikM Away
                      Mik
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #377

                      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-an-attack-on-fordow-could-be-a-strategic-gift-to-iran/ar-AA1H2Tqr?cmp_prftch=2

                      "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • MikM Mik

                        I hear what he says, but if you are not intending to enrich weapons grade materials, why do you go to the expense of hiding your facilities half a mile under a mountain where you have to build tunnels and power facilities into it? When your stated goal is death to <whoever we don't like today> and you are sponsoring attacks on that entity is it reasonable to believe you are not intending to develop the weapon?

                        LuFins DadL Offline
                        LuFins DadL Offline
                        LuFins Dad
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #378

                        @Mik said in The Iran Nuclear Program thread:

                        I hear what he says, but if you are not intending to enrich weapons grade materials, why do you go to the expense of hiding your facilities half a mile under a mountain where you have to build tunnels and power facilities into it? When your stated goal is death to <whoever we don't like today> and you are sponsoring attacks on that entity is it reasonable to believe you are not intending to develop the weapon?

                        Same arguments regarding Hussein and the WMD inspections in 2004… Though, I still find it extremely hard to believe that there weren’t WMD… The only other explanation that I’ll entertain is that he pretended to have WMD programs to try and have some leverage…

                        The Brad

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ Online
                          jon-nycJ Online
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #379

                          You don’t have to believe Israel or Trump. This is from the IAEA:

                          Thank you for your attention to this matter.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • MikM Away
                            MikM Away
                            Mik
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #380

                            There ya go.

                            For me it's never been about believing either one. I looked at what Iran does, not what it, or anyone else, says.

                            "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • jon-nycJ Online
                              jon-nycJ Online
                              jon-nyc
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #381

                              B2s on their way to Diego Garcia.

                              Thank you for your attention to this matter.

                              LuFins DadL 89th8 2 Replies Last reply
                              • jon-nycJ Online
                                jon-nycJ Online
                                jon-nyc
                                wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                #382

                                I suppose this pair of tweets should adjust our priors a bit. Still, I’ll believe it when I see it.

                                Thank you for your attention to this matter.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                  B2s on their way to Diego Garcia.

                                  LuFins DadL Offline
                                  LuFins DadL Offline
                                  LuFins Dad
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #383

                                  @jon-nyc said in The Iran Nuclear Program thread:

                                  B2s on their way to Diego Garcia.

                                  Range of a B2 is just shy of 7K miles…

                                  Still, I’m surprised there aren’t B2s already stationed within range of the Middle East.

                                  The Brad

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • MikM Away
                                    MikM Away
                                    Mik
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #384

                                    I’m not. It sends a message we have not wanted to send.

                                    "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

                                    LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • MikM Mik

                                      I’m not. It sends a message we have not wanted to send.

                                      LuFins DadL Offline
                                      LuFins DadL Offline
                                      LuFins Dad
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #385

                                      @Mik said in The Iran Nuclear Program thread:

                                      I’m not. It sends a message we have not wanted to send.

                                      I didn’t think it needs to be advertised. Publicly sending the B2s to the region sends a message. Having B2s regularly stationed would be normal and expected, just as having some stationed in Germany…

                                      The Brad

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • MikM Away
                                        MikM Away
                                        Mik
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #386

                                        If you have them already stationed then you can’t send a message by bringing them in.

                                        "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • AxtremusA Offline
                                          AxtremusA Offline
                                          Axtremus
                                          wrote on last edited by Axtremus
                                          #387

                                          https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/06/21/world/iran-israel-trump

                                          Trump announced the United States had struck Fordo, Iran’s heavily fortified nuclear facilities, as well as two other sites.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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