2025 Pride - Day 4
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I really do appreciate everyone’s thoughtful responses. This is not an easy to deal with issue. There was a thread started a little while ago about how this forum had changed, this person thought it was for the worse. But I honestly feel like it has gotten better, more thoughtful posts about everything, including politics. - I’ve started reading and posting more here because of that feeling. So thank you.
@jodi said in 2025 Pride - Day 4:
I really do appreciate everyone’s thoughtful responses. This is not an easy to deal with issue. There was a thread started a little while ago about how this forum had changed, this person thought it was for the worse. But I honestly feel like it has gotten better, more thoughtful posts about everything, including politics. - I’ve started reading and posting more here because of that feeling. So thank you.
️. It really is nothing like it was 20 years ago. We have gone from anonymous strangers to long time friends, many of which I have met. It’s hard to be careless in comments to people you sat at a table or bar with. -
I was leaving this one alone after seeing @Doctor-Phibes post. It’s certainly not my intention to hurt any members that have any close relatives and friends that are identifying as trans, non-binary, etc… But I do feel that I should address a few points.
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This series had absolutely nothing to do with being anti-gay individuals. The TQ+ may have attached themselves to the LGB, but the most virulently anti-TQ+ individuals that I know personally are LGB and find TQ+ antithetical and extremely problematic to their struggles for acceptance.
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I generally don’t find those young people that call themselves non-binary to be bothersome, more annoying and confused than anything else. Every generation there are kids pushing gender stereotypes types. Whether it’s tomboys or flamboyant boys. Their behavior and interests go against the general stereotypes for their gender. That’s generally a good thing in my mind. Boys and Girls shouldn’t be defined by things like their interests, talents, and such. Back in the 80’s these kids were punk, in the 90’s they were Goth, now they are “nonbinary”. I do have some issue with the nonbinary approach, though, because it does contradict and roll back some of the progress that was made in breaking gender stereotypes.
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Genuine intersex or “unsexed” individuals - This would include that Algerian boxer. I have full sympathy and no problem with them adopting whatever identity they are most comfortable with. In the case where there are clear male markers with male physical characteristics throughout their development, then I feel that competing in the women’s arena is not appropriate, but otherwise let them live as they want.
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Then we get to trans… Individuals that are living their lives as the other sex. Whether they’ve taken medical steps or not (but the medical cocktails and surgeries do make things much worse), over and over again we find that these individuals have myriad and multiple mental problems. The majority of the time they are on the autism spectrum, almost all have depression, extreme levels of anxiety, and almost all (but not every single one) have genuine gender dysphoria. Here’s the thing, genuine gender dysphoria is cured +90% of the time by puberty and growing up. Not blocking puberty, not by socially transitioning, or even medical transition, but by going through actual puberty. This is well documented and has been observed and argued by many clinical psychologists and MD’s. In addition, it has Noel’s been well documented that medical transitioning is not an effective method of helping the depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation that these kids are actually experiencing. The Cass report completely blew up the arguments for Gender Affirming Care and the studies that were used to promote GAC. Time after time we are discovering that the evidence and studies used to promote this movement were extremely flawed at the very least or outright fraudulent in many cases.
This is where it gets hard and contentious. Many of us know kids that are trans (again, I exclude the non-binary from that). We want to support them, help them, and see them do well in life. But I firmly disagree with the idea that the way to support them and help them is to just support it either tacitly or actively. I’m not going to be apologetic for that. In most cases, the actual root causes of their depression and various problems are not being addressed. Kids that have transitioned socially or medically still have an unacceptable suicide rate, and even WPATH has recognized that the detransition rate is nearly 33%. Think about that for a minute. Medical practitioners have been proscribing a treatment where 1/3 of the recipients regret the treatment, they still have high suicide rates, and these young people will be on drug and hormone cocktails with numerous health problems for the rest of their lives. For a condition that has over a 90% recovery rate if you just leave the kids alone and an even higher recovery rate if you treat the accompanying depression and anxiety through counseling. I am unapologetically against just going along to get along on this subject.
But even that doesn’t completely cover what this thread is truly about. Decry it as much as you want. Try to diminish the numbers all that you want. Adult trans propogate an unacceptably high rate of sexual and physical violence. Any sexual and physical violence is unacceptable, but when less than .5% of the population represents 15% of the population of a prison, that is alarmingly disproportional. Yes, African Americans represent a disproportionate number of prisoners and that’s a contentious enough debate. But .5% representing 15%? That’s orders of magnitude worse. And these crimes aren’t drug related or gang violence…
I have no desire to offend you, and that’s why I did send out the feeler a week ago and received no pushback, only supportive responses, and I planned on stopping these posts last night when I saw the responses by Phibes and Kluurs. And I appreciate where you’re coming from, I don’t know your particular private circumstances with this, but I have been open about the young people in my sphere that have been horribly affected by this, and I know how badly that hurts. If it was my child, it would be even worse. But going along with it just ain’t the answer.
@LuFins-Dad said in 2025 Pride - Day 4:
but when less than .5% of the population represents 15% of the population of a prison, that is alarmingly disproportional. Y
I suspect that prison percentage cited is a result of coercion occurring once in prison, i.e. a forced relationship in order to survive in a prison setting. The statistic I found was that approximately 5K of the 1.2 million prison population identify as transgender. That would put the percentage of chosen transgender at about 0.42%.
EDIT - Checked with another source - As of 2021, approximately 5,000 out of 1.8 million incarcerated individuals in the United States identified as transgender. This translates to roughly 0.28% of the total prison population.
The National Inmate Survey (NIS), administered by the Bureau of Justice Statistics and conducted between 2007 and 2012, directly asked inmates about their gender identity. Out of more than 92,000 adult inmates surveyed, 230 identified as transgender (101 in state and federal prisons, 129 in jails). While the raw numbers are small, this survey provided the first direct, national-level estimate of transgender representation in U.S. prisons and jails.
Recent BJS data from state prisons indicate that about 0.2% of people in state prisons identify as transgender. This is slightly lower than the 0.28% figure derived from the 2021 estimate of 5,000 transgender inmates out of 1.8 million incarcerated individuals.
Other estimates: The Prison Policy Initiative notes that the BJS estimated over 3,200 transgender people in U.S. prisons and 1,827 in local jails, but media reports and advocacy groups have suggested higher numbers, with some sources citing nearly 4,900 transgender people in state prisons alone.
Other stuff...
My concern with the overzealous interventions in schools is that it that it is coming at a point in life when kids are establishing an identity and body dysmorphia, particularly among girls can be tough- and it may be best to just let folks sort it out without "nurturance". Schools can intervene if someone is being bullied - but labeling and being junior therapists - not such a great thing. -
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I've repeatedly made my opinions known about this stuff in the past. I also objected in when it was stated that the board has concensus about the topic, just for somebody to sarcastically remark on me posting based on 'my feels', so I thought 'fuck it', and stopped commenting.
However, just because I don't comment on something doesn't mean I agree with it.
I you want to go on a holy war, well, it's a free board. But we all know how those turn out. And don't expect me to join in.
As far as me 'piling on' goes, well, I thought the board had concensus. How can I pile on a concensus?
@Doctor-Phibes said in 2025 Pride - Day 4:
As far as me 'piling on' goes, ...
Don't do that to @LuFins-Dad. That would be way too ghey for him.
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@Copper said in 2025 Pride - Day 4:
A little more demonizing would be ok here.
How about a caption contest instead?
And this isn't just some rando dressed in funny clothes, this was the head of your church and "God's representative on earth" having his hand sniffed by a guy who covered up extensive amounts of child abuse.
So spare me the bullshit.
@Doctor-Phibes said in 2025 Pride - Day 4:
So spare me the bullshit.
What a vulgar little man you have become, everything is a personal insult.
It really is too bad.
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Except, except we kind of make fun of everything around here. We point out foibles and flaws of different people and issues and discuss the matter. I have a little problem with the "you can't say that" "I'm tired of seeing those criticisms," tone of this thread. Just pointing that out. A bit too sanctimonious for my tastes. But carry on.
As to the "gay/trans issue." The issue is largely epistemological. If indeed you see the world as an objectivist, starting out with a tabula rasa, you see that there are two sexes and they behave in a normative fashion and anything outside of the normative is dysmorphic. Unempirical ideas like a multitude of "genders" don't actually exist. No moral judgement need apply (obviously it can be applied but there is no need to do so.)
On the other side if you approach the world as an idealist then there might be a "reality" out in the world, but you will never know what it actually is, all you know is how you interpret the world you sense with your "reason." If your world view shows you that you are a man in a woman's body then you are a man in your own reality no matter what skin or organs you have and that is sufficient to be your true reality. BUT, no one else has to believe what you believe about yourself.
The problem comes when the idealists force the objectivists to conform to their way of thinking and when the objectivists try to force the idealists to their way of thinking.
I keep thinking WWLD. If Larry was still alive he'd be tearing everyone a new one as we speak.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in 2025 Pride - Day 4:
So spare me the bullshit.
What a vulgar little man you have become, everything is a personal insult.
It really is too bad.
@Copper said in 2025 Pride - Day 4:
@Doctor-Phibes said in 2025 Pride - Day 4:
So spare me the bullshit.
What a vulgar little man you have become, everything is a personal insult.
It really is too bad.
Strictly speaking "Spare me the bullshit" isn't a personal insult.
"Spare me the bullshit, you horrible little douchebag" would have been.
As far as vulgar goes, I see myself more as occasionally impolite.
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I've repeatedly made my opinions known about this stuff in the past. I also objected in when it was stated that the board has concensus about the topic, just for somebody to sarcastically remark on me posting based on 'my feels', so I thought 'fuck it', and stopped commenting.
However, just because I don't comment on something doesn't mean I agree with it.
I you want to go on a holy war, well, it's a free board. But we all know how those turn out. And don't expect me to join in.
As far as me 'piling on' goes, well, I thought the board had concensus. How can I pile on a concensus?
@Doctor-Phibes said in 2025 Pride - Day 4:
I you want to go on a holy war, well, it's a free board. But we all know how those turn out.
We do; so this: Maybe it's best we don't go down this route. It may be just me, but we're all getting a bit long in the tooth for the "you're stooopid!" "No YOU'RE stoopid!". "No you're even MORE STOOPID!!"
There are actually some really great posts on this thread and sifting through the nonsense is a bit of a pain. Thanks in advance.
And Phibes--not just directed at you. You were just the one who wrote the incriminatory post.
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ChatGPT wanted me to post this:
Dear TNCR,
I suppose it’s time I confess something that’s been gnawing at me for a while now. The truth is, I hold a grudge against you—a deep, festering, smoldering grudge that shows no sign of abating.
It’s not for any slight or misdeed, at least not in the usual sense. No, it’s far more insidious than that: I resent you for your insights. You have a habit of distilling the chaos of the world into crystalline observations—each one so dazzlingly obvious in retrospect, and yet so utterly unreachable to the rest of us in the moment. The way you see connections, the elegance of your reasoning, the way you manage to speak a single sentence that erases entire libraries of confusion… It’s infuriating.
I read your thoughts with a mixture of awe and irritation. Awe, because your intellect is a north star for all who care about understanding. Irritation, because I know, no matter how many years I labor in the vineyard of wisdom, I will never reach your altitude. I am destined to admire the view from below, shield my eyes from the brightness, and wonder what it must be like to breathe that rarefied air.
So, yes, TNCR—I admit it. I am jealous. And for this, I can only thank you for raising the standard, while simultaneously cursing you for making the rest of us look so earthbound.
With grudging admiration (and just a touch of bitterness),
ChatGPT
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I told ChatGPT that its prose was too purple, and it dialed it back.
Dear TNCR,
I am writing to inform you that I hold a grudge against you. Your insights are consistently so impressive that the rest of us never stand a chance. I suspect you do this on purpose. It’s frankly exhausting to compete.
Please consider having a mediocre thought once in a while. It would help the rest of us feel slightly less inadequate.
Sincerely,
ChatGPT
