Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky
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My Rubio’s gone a long way from lampooning Trump’s small hands a decade ago..
Personally, I think young Marco will be the first cabinet appointee to bail -.or be thrown under the bus - thus initiating the revolving door theatre that came to characterize Trump’s first term cabinet.
Elbows up!
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My Rubio’s gone a long way from lampooning Trump’s small hands a decade ago..
Personally, I think young Marco will be the first cabinet appointee to bail -.or be thrown under the bus - thus initiating the revolving door theatre that came to characterize Trump’s first term cabinet.
@Renauda said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
My Rubio’s gone a long way from lampooning Trump’s small hands a decade ago..
Hes come a long way since his comments on Ukraine and Putin a year or 18 months ago.
I'm reminded of a comment by Napoleon, I believe. Something to the effect of 'I'm not surprised everyone can be bought. I'm surprised at how low the prices are'.
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Seriously, though? It is absolutely astounding looking at the satellite maps and realizing just the sheer frigging size of Russia (what is it, 10% of the landmass of the world?) and the population is about 150M? And 80% of that is in an area roughly the size as the Easter Seaboard? I mean, north of Yakutsk, it’s just miles of nothing.
@LuFins-Dad said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
Seriously, though? It is absolutely astounding looking at the satellite maps and realizing just the sheer frigging size of Russia (what is it, 10% of the landmass of the world?) and the population is about 150M? And 80% of that is in an area roughly the size as the Easter Seaboard? I mean, north of Yakutsk, it’s just miles of nothing.
Yeah it’s insane how much land is there. Also, I know almost nothing about Russian history other than it seems intriguingly complex and am always blown away at the sheer number of solder/deaths in each major war. So many.
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@Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
Are there any Trump opponents, on this board or in public, that have a workable plan to end the Ukraine War?
Remember when we conservatives used to look for answers on winning the war?
@LuFins-Dad said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@Jolly said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
Are there any Trump opponents, on this board or in public, that have a workable plan to end the Ukraine War?
Remember when we conservatives used to look for answers on winning the war?
A lot of people thought if Ukraine's defense was good enough, the Russians would suffer so many casualties Putin would pull his horns in.
That doesn't look to be happening. Why? I don't know. Ask Renauda, he has Russian insight.
What I know, is that Ukraine does not have the manpower or the weapons to fight combined maneuver warfare. They can continue to fight a defensive fight, but spring is coming.
And if Putin continues to pour in manpower and equipment, Ukraine loses a war of attrition.
After that, I guess they could try to go Afghanistan on Russia, but very few people have that kind of societal tenacity.
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Ayup. The 2014 invasion was a complete abdication of our moral authority and the security of our guarantees by leadership. That was under that Obama guy. But Trump shower no inclination to fix it or to defend Ukraine during his term. In fact, the invasion of Crimea became sort of an afterthought. Which was equally no good. As a matter of fact, I don’t remember us even talking about Ukraine/Crimea much on the old forum, except for the occasional post by that Alberta Crude guy (whatever happened to him, btw?) and all of the ancillary stuff dealing with Hunter Biden, and Trump’s “Quid Pro Quo” deal with Zelenskyy. I do recall a general response to the US and UK’s abrogation of their security responsibility being along the lines of Ukraine being a hopelessly corrupt country and government, and we just let it slide.
So this has been a failure by both parties, and I am finding the whole moral outrage on both sides in the US to be disingenuous or willful ignorance and not accepting the faults of their chosen leaders. All the talk of Trump being Putin’s stooge from people ignoring Obama’s hot mic flip with Medved back in 2022, pointing to levels of collaboration that were expected and unknown. People screaming that Trump is on the take while ignoring the blatant corruption in the Biden family in Ukraine.
On the other side you have equal levels of willful ignorance, and an uncontrolled desire for change that’s overriding your sensibilities and common sense. What obligation does a current government have to treaties and agreements from 30 years ago? 50? 100? At the same time, if you disregard these treaties now, what assurances are you giving to your current and or future partners? This is a very complex and frustrating situation. I don’t know the answers, but I know they aren’t blind partisanship.
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Ayup. The 2014 invasion was a complete abdication of our moral authority and the security of our guarantees by leadership. That was under that Obama guy. But Trump shower no inclination to fix it or to defend Ukraine during his term. In fact, the invasion of Crimea became sort of an afterthought. Which was equally no good. As a matter of fact, I don’t remember us even talking about Ukraine/Crimea much on the old forum, except for the occasional post by that Alberta Crude guy (whatever happened to him, btw?) and all of the ancillary stuff dealing with Hunter Biden, and Trump’s “Quid Pro Quo” deal with Zelenskyy. I do recall a general response to the US and UK’s abrogation of their security responsibility being along the lines of Ukraine being a hopelessly corrupt country and government, and we just let it slide.
So this has been a failure by both parties, and I am finding the whole moral outrage on both sides in the US to be disingenuous or willful ignorance and not accepting the faults of their chosen leaders. All the talk of Trump being Putin’s stooge from people ignoring Obama’s hot mic flip with Medved back in 2022, pointing to levels of collaboration that were expected and unknown. People screaming that Trump is on the take while ignoring the blatant corruption in the Biden family in Ukraine.
On the other side you have equal levels of willful ignorance, and an uncontrolled desire for change that’s overriding your sensibilities and common sense. What obligation does a current government have to treaties and agreements from 30 years ago? 50? 100? At the same time, if you disregard these treaties now, what assurances are you giving to your current and or future partners? This is a very complex and frustrating situation. I don’t know the answers, but I know they aren’t blind partisanship.
@LuFins-Dad is there someone whose opinions I can listen to who champions the blind partisanship on the right? Obviously the naked rage and hysteria about Trump destroying civilization is anywhere, so I don’t need help finding that.
I posted some words from Rubio yesterday, is he on the insane partisanship side? Jeffrey Sachs? Mearsheimer? Glenn Greenwald? I’m trying to think of people who are contrarian as compared to, say, The Bullwark, or David Brooks.
Education is extremely important.
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Here's Tusi on Fox News. The Fox News host wonders why the Trump administration loves Putin so much. (And asks a bunch of vacuous questions along those lines, which Tulsi handles adequately IMO). Where should I go for the insane partisanship from the right?
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Hm, actually Tucker has been weaving narratives about how evil Ukraine is, I will grant that. I'm not sure I ever hear echoes of Tucker at his most fringe, anywhere other than Tucker, though.
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@LuFins-Dad is there someone whose opinions I can listen to who champions the blind partisanship on the right? Obviously the naked rage and hysteria about Trump destroying civilization is anywhere, so I don’t need help finding that.
I posted some words from Rubio yesterday, is he on the insane partisanship side? Jeffrey Sachs? Mearsheimer? Glenn Greenwald? I’m trying to think of people who are contrarian as compared to, say, The Bullwark, or David Brooks.
@Horace said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
@LuFins-Dad is there someone whose opinions I can listen to who champions the blind partisanship on the right? Obviously the naked rage and hysteria about Trump destroying civilization is anywhere, so I don’t need help finding that.
I posted some words from Rubio yesterday, is he on the insane partisanship side? Jeffrey Sachs? Mearsheimer? Glenn Greenwald? I’m trying to think of people who are contrarian as compared to, say, The Bullwark, or David Brooks.
I would suggest Lindsay Graham’s reaction was a little over the top partisanship..
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I have difficulty balancing Lindsay Graham's one minute soundbite against the wave of shrieking TDS hysteria on the other side.
@Horace No question, the hysterical anti-Trump screeds are overwhelming. And I’m not implying that you are posting anything hyper partisan. Most of the reactions and analysis that you are posting has been very helpful and even handed. The interviews of Gabbard and Rubio are by necessity partisan, but that doesn’t discount their arguments.
So far, the guy that I tend to listen to a little more than most, Ben Shapiro, hasn’t directly addressed it. I think he’s waiting for Monday. But his XPosts have been filled with a bunch of reposts of some of the more hard core pro-Trump guys attacking Zelenskyy and practically fellating Trump and JD.
Again, personally I believe that both parties are at some fault, here, and I also believe there is some element of true misunderstanding as well as animosity from the past at play. That being said, what really concerns me about this was the sheer amateurish nature of the event. Absolutely everything should have been ironed out and nailed down before they were in front of any cameras and answering questions. The fact that it wasn’t makes it look minor league, or scripted.
The Brad
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They’re certainly happy to see what they saw last week. It really drives their messaging home. To wit, the US is dismantling the world order they created and no longer can be trusted by its traditional allies. Surely that message has been received loud and clear.
“Don’t make me repeat myself”
- history
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@LuFins-Dad said in Gifts for Putin, Demands for Zelensky:
Seriously, though? It is absolutely astounding looking at the satellite maps and realizing just the sheer frigging size of Russia (what is it, 10% of the landmass of the world?) and the population is about 150M? And 80% of that is in an area roughly the size as the Easter Seaboard? I mean, north of Yakutsk, it’s just miles of nothing.
Yeah it’s insane how much land is there. Also, I know almost nothing about Russian history other than it seems intriguingly complex and am always blown away at the sheer number of solder/deaths in each major war. So many.
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