DOJ friend resigns
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It's going to be a tough sell to convince people that the lives of government workers were made so miserable that they simply could no longer stomach going into work. I think for practical purposes, it's a lot of public rhetoric on Twitter, which can be easily ignored. Some dumb emails from Musk that the boss tells everybody to ignore don't really tip that scale IMO.
On a calibrated scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being quality of life impact on police officers after George Floyd, I think our federal government workers are currently experiencing a 1.01.
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I’d just like to point out that with 10 years of military service and 13 years of Federal, he’s entitled to a full retirement at 50. So with another 6 months of paid time off, and easy private sector opportunities, it’s a pretty easy decision, one that wouldn’t be available generally in the private sector.
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I don’t disagree with either of you about the misery index or the financial aspect (although he’s 44 so retirement isn’t an option), I think the larger point is his decision to quit underscores the severity of the insulting culture being spread across the civilian service.
I know it doesn’t mean much but knowing him personally, it’s substantial that after serving different political parties and in the theater of war (as a younger lad), that this is what’s making him leave the civil service. I wouldn’t have expected it so it means a little bit to me.
Anyway, I’ve asked him for some “inside the ropes” examples but he’s been private about that stuff so we’ll see. His home was doxxed a year ago so he’s a little cagier about things these days.
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I don’t disagree with either of you about the misery index or the financial aspect (although he’s 44 so retirement isn’t an option), I think the larger point is his decision to quit underscores the severity of the insulting culture being spread across the civilian service.
I know it doesn’t mean much but knowing him personally, it’s substantial that after serving different political parties and in the theater of war (as a younger lad), that this is what’s making him leave the civil service. I wouldn’t have expected it so it means a little bit to me.
Anyway, I’ve asked him for some “inside the ropes” examples but he’s been private about that stuff so we’ll see. His home was doxxed a year ago so he’s a little cagier about things these days.
@89th said in DOJ friend resigns:
I think the larger point is his decision to quit underscores the severity of the insulting culture being spread across the civilian service.
It's the narrative he's telling, but like I said, it's a tough sell. Especially when it's not obvious that he's making an economic sacrifice.
Just to be clear, he hates Trump, right? I mean at least as much as you do?
Education is extremely important.
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@89th said in DOJ friend resigns:
I think the larger point is his decision to quit underscores the severity of the insulting culture being spread across the civilian service.
It's the narrative he's telling, but like I said, it's a tough sell. Especially when it's not obvious that he's making an economic sacrifice.
Just to be clear, he hates Trump, right? I mean at least as much as you do?
@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
@89th said in DOJ friend resigns:
I think the larger point is his decision to quit underscores the severity of the insulting culture being spread across the civilian service.
It's the narrative he's telling, but like I said, it's a tough sell. Especially when it's not obvious that he's making an economic sacrifice.
Just to be clear, he hates Trump, right? I mean at least as much as you do?
Do you honestly believe the current work environment at the DOJ is particularly positive?
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@89th said in DOJ friend resigns:
I think the larger point is his decision to quit underscores the severity of the insulting culture being spread across the civilian service.
It's the narrative he's telling, but like I said, it's a tough sell. Especially when it's not obvious that he's making an economic sacrifice.
Just to be clear, he hates Trump, right? I mean at least as much as you do?
@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
@89th said in DOJ friend resigns:
I think the larger point is his decision to quit underscores the severity of the insulting culture being spread across the civilian service.
It's the narrative he's telling, but like I said, it's a tough sell. Especially when it's not obvious that he's making an economic sacrifice.
With all due respect, your focus on the economic sacrifice instead of the hard decision to depart civil service implies you underestimate what drives many federal employees. Many see it as a way to serve their country. Yes it’s a job with pay and benefits but often folks including my friend Josh have foregone more lucrative job offers in favor of the civil service out of duty. It’s easy to dismiss that as cliche, but there it is.
Just to be clear, he hates Trump, right? I mean at least as much as you do?
He served Trump before. But since his daily job was being the primary point of contact for media outlet reporter inquiries, I’d imagine the requirement to regurgitate what Trump, Patel, Bondi, and Bongino were saying…probably wore on him more than most employees who aren’t the mouthpiece for their agency.
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Bondi was sworn in on February 5th. Patel and Bongino came well after. So 1 day with Bondi was enough to push him over the edge?
The Brad
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@89th People tell themselves stories just like they tell other people stories. I believe that people believe they are 'serving their country' by working for the government. I don't take that seriously, and I never have. If you have a private sector job and pay your taxes and contribute to the economy, you are serving your society too. But we don't have a narrative about private sector employees serving any greater cause, so we don't think in those terms. We may even disrespect it as serving the profit motive, or big corporations. I know we'll disagree on this, but like I said, I get that people believe the stories they tell themselves, and about themselves, and the stories others tell about them. But some narratives are flimsier than others, and government workers being self-sacrificial is a very flimsy story, considering the actual benefits they receive, from pensions to job security.
Education is extremely important.
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Half of the country is cheering for this organization to get gutted. Put aside if that’s right or wrong, some people would be pretty demoralized to be a part of that org for that reason alone.
Maybe the money is enough to make up for it for some, maybe it isn’t for others.
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Bondi was sworn in on February 5th. Patel and Bongino came well after. So 1 day with Bondi was enough to push him over the edge?
@LuFins-Dad said in DOJ friend resigns:
Bondi was sworn in on February 5th. Patel and Bongino came well after. So 1 day with Bondi was enough to push him over the edge?
I’m not saying it was Bondi. But they’re all singing the Trump song, maybe he didn’t want to be in the chorus any more. Trump 47 is very different than Trump 45.
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@89th People tell themselves stories just like they tell other people stories. I believe that people believe they are 'serving their country' by working for the government. I don't take that seriously, and I never have. If you have a private sector job and pay your taxes and contribute to the economy, you are serving your society too. But we don't have a narrative about private sector employees serving any greater cause, so we don't think in those terms. We may even disrespect it as serving the profit motive, or big corporations. I know we'll disagree on this, but like I said, I get that people believe the stories they tell themselves, and about themselves, and the stories others tell about them. But some narratives are flimsier than others, and government workers being self-sacrificial is a very flimsy story, considering the actual benefits they receive, from pensions to job security.
@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
@89th People tell themselves stories just like they tell other people stories. I believe that people believe they are 'serving their country' by working for the government. I don't take that seriously, and I never have. If you have a private sector job and pay your taxes and contribute to the economy, you are serving your society too. But we don't have a narrative about private sector employees serving any greater cause, so we don't think in those terms. We may even disrespect it as serving the profit motive, or big corporations. I know we'll disagree on this, but like I said, I get that people believe the stories they tell themselves, and about themselves, and the stories others tell about them. But some narratives are flimsier than others, and government workers being self-sacrificial is a very flimsy story, considering the actual benefits they receive, from pensions to job security.
I’m already regretting sharing that tweet. If you can trust me, and as I know him, it’s very substantial (and surprising) for him to make this decision to quit the civil service. I think it speaks volumes of how negatively federal employees are being treated but whatever.
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I’d just like to point out that with 10 years of military service and 13 years of Federal, he’s entitled to a full retirement at 50. So with another 6 months of paid time off, and easy private sector opportunities, it’s a pretty easy decision, one that wouldn’t be available generally in the private sector.
@LuFins-Dad said in DOJ friend resigns:
I’d just like to point out that with 10 years of military service and 13 years of Federal, he’s entitled to a full retirement at 50. So with another 6 months of paid time off, and easy private sector opportunities, it’s a pretty easy decision, one that wouldn’t be available generally in the private sector.
Being that he is only 44, his minimum retirement age for eligibility for immediate retirement is age 57 with at least 30 years service. Age 60 with 20 years, or age 62 with 5 years service. He is pretty far away from 57. There is no retirement at 50. He also has to pay a military deposit to have his military time added to his federal service count. Sorry to hear his decision 89th. How did he get hurt in the military?
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It's literally vaguely insulting for government employees to feel like they're serving a higher purpose than private sector employees, just based on the principle of working for the government. One can be proud of what they do, or who they work for, but to feel like a government job occupies a higher rung of service to humanity, is actually a little insulting. So, I don't actually feel too bad about pushing back on this. it's not only a flimsy narrative, it's also a little insulting.
Education is extremely important.
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@LuFins-Dad said in DOJ friend resigns:
I’d just like to point out that with 10 years of military service and 13 years of Federal, he’s entitled to a full retirement at 50. So with another 6 months of paid time off, and easy private sector opportunities, it’s a pretty easy decision, one that wouldn’t be available generally in the private sector.
Being that he is only 44, his minimum retirement age for eligibility for immediate retirement is age 57 with at least 30 years service. Age 60 with 20 years, or age 62 with 5 years service. He is pretty far away from 57. There is no retirement at 50. He also has to pay a military deposit to have his military time added to his federal service count. Sorry to hear his decision 89th. How did he get hurt in the military?
@NobodySock said in DOJ friend resigns:
@LuFins-Dad said in DOJ friend resigns:
I’d just like to point out that with 10 years of military service and 13 years of Federal, he’s entitled to a full retirement at 50. So with another 6 months of paid time off, and easy private sector opportunities, it’s a pretty easy decision, one that wouldn’t be available generally in the private sector.
Being that he is only 44, his minimum retirement age for eligibility for immediate retirement is age 57 with at least 30 years service. Age 60 with 20 years, or age 62 with 5 years service. He is pretty far away from 57. There is no retirement at 50. He also has to pay a military deposit to have his military time added to his federal service count. Sorry to hear his decision 89th. How did he get hurt in the military?
Not sure, never asked. Although I'm curious, to be honest. He doesn't talk about the war stories, although one night we were at a Japanese Hibachi restaurant and there was a very large "flame out" the chef did on the grill and Josh had to leave the room for a bit. His girlfriend (now wife) said he was having a PTSD flashback.
After his service, he adopted a young daughter, and volunteered time at the NIH traumatic brain injury institute for a while helping veterans know what their medical options were if they had a TBI and/or PTSD that deserved treatment. He also coordinates charity events for the Wounded Warrior project.
Fun fact, you know how during NFL drafts there is a segment where they bring out veterans on stage? I found out later that was his doing... he just contacted the USO one day (I think back in 2008...) and asked how to get 10 veterans tickets to the draft, and it resulted in a recurring segment each year where veterans are brought onto stage to announce the next player. I think this is him (yellow circle).
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It's literally vaguely insulting for government employees to feel like they're serving a higher purpose than private sector employees, just based on the principle of working for the government. One can be proud of what they do, or who they work for, but to feel like a government job occupies a higher rung of service to humanity, is actually a little insulting. So, I don't actually feel too bad about pushing back on this. it's not only a flimsy narrative, it's also a little insulting.
@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
It's literally vaguely insulting for government employees to feel like they're serving a higher purpose than private sector employees, just based on the principle of working for the government. One can be proud of what they do, or who they work for, but to feel like a government job occupies a higher rung of service to humanity, is actually a little insulting. So, I don't actually feel too bad about pushing back on this. it's not only a flimsy narrative, it's also a little insulting.
Odd. I hear what you're saying but in no way am I insulted (as a private sector employee) knowing that people put value in the mission they serve in the civil service and that it's a hard decision to voluntarily leave it due to toxicity. It's that simple. In other words, the value one puts on the mission of their employer has zero impact on the value I see in my own work.
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@LuFins-Dad said in DOJ friend resigns:
I’d just like to point out that with 10 years of military service and 13 years of Federal, he’s entitled to a full retirement at 50. So with another 6 months of paid time off, and easy private sector opportunities, it’s a pretty easy decision, one that wouldn’t be available generally in the private sector.
Being that he is only 44, his minimum retirement age for eligibility for immediate retirement is age 57 with at least 30 years service. Age 60 with 20 years, or age 62 with 5 years service. He is pretty far away from 57. There is no retirement at 50. He also has to pay a military deposit to have his military time added to his federal service count. Sorry to hear his decision 89th. How did he get hurt in the military?
@NobodySock said in DOJ friend resigns:
@LuFins-Dad said in DOJ friend resigns:
I’d just like to point out that with 10 years of military service and 13 years of Federal, he’s entitled to a full retirement at 50. So with another 6 months of paid time off, and easy private sector opportunities, it’s a pretty easy decision, one that wouldn’t be available generally in the private sector.
Being that he is only 44, his minimum retirement age for eligibility for immediate retirement is age 57 with at least 30 years service. Age 60 with 20 years, or age 62 with 5 years service. He is pretty far away from 57. There is no retirement at 50. He also has to pay a military deposit to have his military time added to his federal service count. Sorry to hear his decision 89th. How did he get hurt in the military?
Didn’t know his age until @89th posted it, but you can take VERA at 50 with 20 years service (including military). You can also get early retirement with 25 years total service even under 50. A good friend took VERA from WH Comms in 2017. He was 47 at the time. Had another friend take VERA at 52. Both took lucrative jobs after…
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It actually plays well to 89ths friend that he left 2 years before he may have been eligible.
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@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
It's literally vaguely insulting for government employees to feel like they're serving a higher purpose than private sector employees, just based on the principle of working for the government. One can be proud of what they do, or who they work for, but to feel like a government job occupies a higher rung of service to humanity, is actually a little insulting. So, I don't actually feel too bad about pushing back on this. it's not only a flimsy narrative, it's also a little insulting.
Odd. I hear what you're saying but in no way am I insulted (as a private sector employee) knowing that people put value in the mission they serve in the civil service and that it's a hard decision to voluntarily leave it due to toxicity. It's that simple. In other words, the value one puts on the mission of their employer has zero impact on the value I see in my own work.
@89th said in DOJ friend resigns:
@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
It's literally vaguely insulting for government employees to feel like they're serving a higher purpose than private sector employees, just based on the principle of working for the government. One can be proud of what they do, or who they work for, but to feel like a government job occupies a higher rung of service to humanity, is actually a little insulting. So, I don't actually feel too bad about pushing back on this. it's not only a flimsy narrative, it's also a little insulting.
Odd. I hear what you're saying but in no way am I insulted (as a private sector employee) knowing that people put value in the mission they serve in the civil service and that it's a hard decision to voluntarily leave it due to toxicity. It's that simple. In other words, the value one puts on the mission of their employer has zero impact on the value I see in my own work.
You clearly identify with government employees, while not technically being one. And the narrative about self-sacrificial government employees serving their country is completely meaningless unless it's relative to something, and that thing would be everybody who doesn't work for the government. I'm not actually personally insulted by the narrative, other than finding it insultingly silly to believe that the stacks of applications for every federal government job are from people who are relatively more eager to serve their fellow man than the rest of us.
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@89th said in DOJ friend resigns:
@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
It's literally vaguely insulting for government employees to feel like they're serving a higher purpose than private sector employees, just based on the principle of working for the government. One can be proud of what they do, or who they work for, but to feel like a government job occupies a higher rung of service to humanity, is actually a little insulting. So, I don't actually feel too bad about pushing back on this. it's not only a flimsy narrative, it's also a little insulting.
Odd. I hear what you're saying but in no way am I insulted (as a private sector employee) knowing that people put value in the mission they serve in the civil service and that it's a hard decision to voluntarily leave it due to toxicity. It's that simple. In other words, the value one puts on the mission of their employer has zero impact on the value I see in my own work.
You clearly identify with government employees, while not technically being one. And the narrative about self-sacrificial government employees serving their country is completely meaningless unless it's relative to something, and that thing would be everybody who doesn't work for the government. I'm not actually personally insulted by the narrative, other than finding it insultingly silly to believe that the stacks of applications for every federal government job are from people who are relatively more eager to serve their fellow man than the rest of us.
@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
@89th said in DOJ friend resigns:
@Horace said in DOJ friend resigns:
It's literally vaguely insulting for government employees to feel like they're serving a higher purpose than private sector employees, just based on the principle of working for the government. One can be proud of what they do, or who they work for, but to feel like a government job occupies a higher rung of service to humanity, is actually a little insulting. So, I don't actually feel too bad about pushing back on this. it's not only a flimsy narrative, it's also a little insulting.
Odd. I hear what you're saying but in no way am I insulted (as a private sector employee) knowing that people put value in the mission they serve in the civil service and that it's a hard decision to voluntarily leave it due to toxicity. It's that simple. In other words, the value one puts on the mission of their employer has zero impact on the value I see in my own work.
You clearly identify with government employees, while not technically being one. And the narrative about self-sacrificial government employees serving their country is completely meaningless unless it's relative to something, and that thing would be everybody who doesn't work for the government. I'm not actually personally insulted by the narrative, other than finding it insultingly silly to believe that the stacks of applications for every federal government job are from people who are relatively more eager to serve their fellow man than the rest of us.
And at higher rates of pay and better benefits than equivalent private sector jobs.
