Well, die then.
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Seems like basic statistics to me. There are lots of people waiting on a heart, it makes sense to require those who might get it to be up to date with vaccines (i.e., improve the odds the body won't reject it). As I understand it, the recipients are often immunocompromised after a transplant (at least in my FIL's case with a kidney), so a child without any vaccinations seems both irresponsible by the parent and unnecessarily risky, in general.
The story said the mom was non-denominational (as I was most of my life) and the reason she doesn't let her kid get vaccines. I did a quick google search but couldn't find scripture that teaches against the use of vaccines. (Not being snarky, I was genuinely curious)
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Before viewing this story, if you told me "Hey, did you know to get on an organ transplant list you need to be up to date with your vaccines?", that wouldn't seem controversial in the least bit. Admittedly I saw the hoops my FIL had to jump through for about 10 years on the transplant list until his name was finally called. He had to meet lots of requirements, and vaccines was probably the easiest ones to check off the list.
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Wow ok, so the mom has 12 kids (adopted?) good for her, crazy...but good for her. She isn't vaccinating them because the Holy Spirit told her not to. Ok, I'm not one to judge the Holy Spirit, but that's at least her "reasoning".
More specifically, the child has " Ebstein’s anomaly and Wolff-Parkinson-White Syndrome" and "there is a higher risk of death if infected with COVID compared to other patients, according to Dr. Camille Kotton, the clinical director of transplant and immunocompromised host infectious diseases at Massachusetts General Hospital."
But according to the mom, she is confident would not have any problems with COVID-19 after the transplant.
Who ya gonna trust?
It sucks but again, the policy makes sense to me.
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Wow ok, so the mom has 12 kids (adopted?) good for her, crazy...but good for her. She isn't vaccinating them because the Holy Spirit told her not to. Ok, I'm not one to judge the Holy Spirit, but that's at least her "reasoning".
More specifically, the child has " Ebstein’s anomaly and Wolff-Parkinson-White Syndrome" and "there is a higher risk of death if infected with COVID compared to other patients, according to Dr. Camille Kotton, the clinical director of transplant and immunocompromised host infectious diseases at Massachusetts General Hospital."
But according to the mom, she is confident would not have any problems with COVID-19 after the transplant.
Who ya gonna trust?
It sucks but again, the policy makes sense to me.
@89th said in Well, die then.:
Wow ok, so the mom has 12 kids (adopted?) good for her, crazy...but good for her. She isn't vaccinating them because the Holy Spirit told her not to. Ok, I'm not one to judge the Holy Spirit, but that's at least her "reasoning".
More specifically, the child has " Ebstein’s anomaly and Wolff-Parkinson-White Syndrome" and "there is a higher risk of death if infected with COVID compared to other patients, according to Dr. Camille Kotton, the clinical director of transplant and immunocompromised host infectious diseases at Massachusetts General Hospital."
But according to the mom, she is confident would not have any problems with COVID-19 after the transplant.
Who ya gonna trust?
It sucks but again, the policy makes sense to me.
And...let's interject a few facts, shall we?
What does the child have? Two congenital heart defects. One is a tricuspid valve problem. The other is a nerve impulse problem that leads to tachycardia and A-fib.
Any transplant patient is put on immunosuppressive therapy. The survival rate for a heart transplant patient is about 10 years.
COVID, by its very nature, has a vascular component, one we are still not completely sure about the mechanism and long-term effects. It is true that a heart transplant patient with severe COVID has a 25% chance of dying.
It is also true that any transplant patient has a higher risk of getting COVID, because of their anti-rejection drugs and because of their higher interaction with the medical system.
However, it is also true that COVID has multiple variants now, many of which the mRNA vaccine is useless against. In my opinion, the current COVID vaccine is less effective than the current flu vaccine (which is widely acknowledged as being about 25% effective).
Therefore, let us kill this child over a religious objection to a vaccine that is effective less than 25% of the time.
Kind-hearted people are we...
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Therefore, point your finger at this child and tell her to die.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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We talked about this in the early vaccine period. This is nothing new, and nothing specific to Covid.
Organs are hard to come by, and don't last long in people who don't take good care of them. History of non-compliance with medical advice is a contraindication for transplant. If I had refused, say, a tetanus shot or a Hep B vaccine prior to tx I would have been delisted. This used to be non-controversial, at least outside of Christian Scientist and Granola-Chick antivaxx circles.
Only non-witches get due process.
- Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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We talked about this in the early vaccine period. This is nothing new, and nothing specific to Covid.
Organs are hard to come by, and don't last long in people who don't take good care of them. History of non-compliance with medical advice is a contraindication for transplant. If I had refused, say, a tetanus shot or a Hep B vaccine prior to tx I would have been delisted. This used to be non-controversial, at least outside of Christian Scientist and Granola-Chick antivaxx circles.
@jon-nyc said in Well, die then.:
We talked about this in the early vaccine period. This is nothing new, and nothing specific to Covid.
Organs are hard to come by, and don't last long in people who don't take good care of them. History of non-compliance with medical advice is a contraindication for transplant. If I had refused, say, a tetanus shot or a Hep B vaccine prior to tx I would have been delisted. This used to be non-controversial, at least outside of Christian Scientist and Granola-Chick antivaxx circles.
I don't think people view mRNA vaccines the same as an attenuated virus vaccine. In fact, mRNA vaccines don't quite qualify for the classic definition of vaccine.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@Jolly said in Well, die then.:
Therefore, point your finger at this child and tell her to die.
The solution is simple and readily available: just vaccinate the child already.
@Axtremus said in Well, die then.:
@Jolly said in Well, die then.:
Therefore, point your finger at this child and tell her to die.
The solution is simple and readily available: just vaccinate the child already.
Not if the mother has a religious objection.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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@Axtremus said in Well, die then.:
@Jolly said in Well, die then.:
Therefore, point your finger at this child and tell her to die.
The solution is simple and readily available: just vaccinate the child already.
Not if the mother has a religious objection.
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@Jolly said in Well, die then.:
Not if the mother has a religious objection.
The mother can die on her chosen cross if she wishes. But don't take the child with her. It's just not good parenting.
@Axtremus said in Well, die then.:
@Jolly said in Well, die then.:
Not if the mother has a religious objection.
The mother can die on her chosen cross if she wishes. But don't take the child with her. It's just not good parenting.
And what do you know about parenting?
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
-
@jon-nyc said in Well, die then.:
We talked about this in the early vaccine period. This is nothing new, and nothing specific to Covid.
Organs are hard to come by, and don't last long in people who don't take good care of them. History of non-compliance with medical advice is a contraindication for transplant. If I had refused, say, a tetanus shot or a Hep B vaccine prior to tx I would have been delisted. This used to be non-controversial, at least outside of Christian Scientist and Granola-Chick antivaxx circles.
I don't think people view mRNA vaccines the same as an attenuated virus vaccine. In fact, mRNA vaccines don't quite qualify for the classic definition of vaccine.
@Jolly said in Well, die then.:
@jon-nyc said in Well, die then.:
We talked about this in the early vaccine period. This is nothing new, and nothing specific to Covid.
Organs are hard to come by, and don't last long in people who don't take good care of them. History of non-compliance with medical advice is a contraindication for transplant. If I had refused, say, a tetanus shot or a Hep B vaccine prior to tx I would have been delisted. This used to be non-controversial, at least outside of Christian Scientist and Granola-Chick antivaxx circles.
I don't think people view mRNA vaccines the same as an attenuated virus vaccine. In fact, mRNA vaccines don't quite qualify for the classic definition of vaccine.
True, and it wouldn't surprise me if some programs have relaxed the Covid vaccine requirement, if the patient had acquired immunity.
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@89th said in Well, die then.:
Wow ok, so the mom has 12 kids (adopted?) good for her, crazy...but good for her. She isn't vaccinating them because the Holy Spirit told her not to. Ok, I'm not one to judge the Holy Spirit, but that's at least her "reasoning".
More specifically, the child has " Ebstein’s anomaly and Wolff-Parkinson-White Syndrome" and "there is a higher risk of death if infected with COVID compared to other patients, according to Dr. Camille Kotton, the clinical director of transplant and immunocompromised host infectious diseases at Massachusetts General Hospital."
But according to the mom, she is confident would not have any problems with COVID-19 after the transplant.
Who ya gonna trust?
It sucks but again, the policy makes sense to me.
And...let's interject a few facts, shall we?
What does the child have? Two congenital heart defects. One is a tricuspid valve problem. The other is a nerve impulse problem that leads to tachycardia and A-fib.
Any transplant patient is put on immunosuppressive therapy. The survival rate for a heart transplant patient is about 10 years.
COVID, by its very nature, has a vascular component, one we are still not completely sure about the mechanism and long-term effects. It is true that a heart transplant patient with severe COVID has a 25% chance of dying.
It is also true that any transplant patient has a higher risk of getting COVID, because of their anti-rejection drugs and because of their higher interaction with the medical system.
However, it is also true that COVID has multiple variants now, many of which the mRNA vaccine is useless against. In my opinion, the current COVID vaccine is less effective than the current flu vaccine (which is widely acknowledged as being about 25% effective).
Therefore, let us kill this child over a religious objection to a vaccine that is effective less than 25% of the time.
Kind-hearted people are we...
@Jolly said in Well, die then.:
Therefore, let us kill this child over a religious objection to a vaccine that is effective less than 25% of the time.
Kind-hearted people are we...
Not really, it would be unfair to give the heart to someone when there are others who have followed the rules AND (bluntly) have a better chance at living. There's 1 heart available and 100 people who need it, this seems to be a normal approach for organ transplant lists (compatibility matches and health optimization) at least as far as I'm aware.
And again, I am truly not directly judging what the mother heard from the Holy Spirit, but essentially she has the decision of whether to: A) give her child a vaccine (to protect her health) and the chance at a heart, or B) have neither. It's hard to accept that she is being told by the Holy Spirit to pick Option B.
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@Axtremus said in Well, die then.:
@Jolly said in Well, die then.:
Not if the mother has a religious objection.
The mother can die on her chosen cross if she wishes. But don't take the child with her. It's just not good parenting.
And what do you know about parenting?
@Jolly said in Well, die then.:
@Axtremus said in Well, die then.:
@Jolly said in Well, die then.:
Not if the mother has a religious objection.
The mother can die on her chosen cross if she wishes. But don't take the child with her. It's just not good parenting.
And what do you know about parenting?
There you go again, Beauregard. I am sure Ax knows every bit as much about being a responsible parent as do you. Moreover I am certain he is a good parent. So lay off him and for once quit with your distractors when you find yourself dug into a hole or called to account.
In the case of this child, the mother’s religious convictions over a vaccine are obstructing her child from receiving a heart transplant. I can think of no impediment in the mainstream Christian tradition that would forbid someone from receiving a vaccine of any sort.
In my view the mother’s opposition to the vaccine is based entirely on her misinformed belief in disinformation and conspiracy theory nonsense. She is hiding behind her religion and not at all adhering to it. Her objection on a religious ground is a false pretence.
If anything she is plain and simple guilty of reckless endangerment of her daughter.
