Helicopter Crash in DC
-
@Doctor-Phibes said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
Has it occurred to anybody that this could just be a tragic accident caused by a very challenging working environment, and that disabled black lesbians weren't in some way to blame?
As a safety engineer, were not you taught that there is no such thing as an accident? LOL Just teasing you.
I sat in on a couple of "accident" analysis. We called them "Tap Root" or "Root Cause" analysis. Always found that there was something that could have been done to prevent the event.
Now, of course, the time and money to do so maybe did not make it worthwhile to justify that the very small chance that the event would happen.
One of the examples given was that ALL highway car "accidents" that result in death could be eliminated. Lower speed limit/lower maximum speed of cars, armor cars, requiring breath test of everyone to start a car, etc. etc. But the cost and effort were not worth it to do that and would cause too much disruption so some car "accident" deaths were "acceptable"
@taiwan_girl said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
One of the examples given was that ALL highway car "accidents" that result in death could be eliminated. Lower speed limit/lower maximum speed of cars, armor cars, requiring breath test of everyone to start a car, etc. etc. But the cost and effort were not worth it to do that and would cause too much disruption so some car "accident" deaths were "acceptable"
At some point, the loss of efficiency and freedom can be blamed for deaths, too. But it's interesting how much difficulty most humans seem to have with grappling with simple reasoning like that. During COVID, we saw the "even a single life is infinitely precious" crowd out in full force, even on this forum.
-
My own single life is infinitely precious. Yours, not so much.
I do this for a living. There's an acceptable level of risk. With what I do, it's a pretty high bar, but there's still a bar. We also write standards to cover it. But anybody who thinks you can completely eliminate risk probably isn't worth listening to. The same thing applies to people who say the standards are all rubbish and this could never happen and we should just use a bit of common sense and everything will be ok. The second group are typically trying to make money.
-
I can’t see them closing DCA. The secret service didn’t want to reopen it after 9/11 and Bush ordered them to.
@jon-nyc said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
I can’t see them closing DCA. The secret service didn’t want to reopen it after 9/11 and Bush ordered them to.
I wonder what his reason was. It's not like the airport is a convenience to the President as it is closer to the Oval Office than Dulles, by the mere fact that Air Force 1 uses neither, but Andrews AFB instead down the road a ways in Camp Springs, MD, (where my daughter was born!)
-
In 2001, IAD was too inconvenient to service DC by itself. There was no mass transit system in place and the express road was more limited. DCA was necessary.
Since that time, a metro line has been installed directly tying the airport to DC and the express lanes have been expanded. 66 going into DC has also seen a reduction in traffic thanks to the dynamic tolling and HOV Toll Free policies. IAD is much more easily accessible than it was, and the airport still has tremendous amounts of space available to expand and modernize.
They may not shut down DCA, but it is not nearly as necessary as it was.
The Brad
-
From what I understand it's really, really, really hard to pass the test to become an air traffic controller, too.
@89th said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
From what I understand it's really, really, really hard to pass the test to become an air traffic controller, too.
when I joined the Air Force under a delayed enlistment program, I was qualified to choose any rate they offerred as I aced the ASVAB intelligence test all recruits have to take. I was advised to pick 2 rates in this delayed enlistment program and as soon as the school for one of the 2 became open I would then "reenlist" and fly off to Lackland AFB in San Antonio to commence my bootcamp. I chose Air Traffic Controller and Pharmacy Specialist as I wanted to be educated in a trade that would carry over well in a future civilian life. I waited for 4 months before the call came for the opening in the Pharmacy Specialist school and living in Carson City, NV, at the time, I took a bus to Oakland, CA, to the military MEPS station to reinlist and then fly to San Antonio. One of the last things they do before you reenlist is to take you into a room that has an FBI agent in it. They sit you down and ask you if everything you have stated in your application for the military is true and that nothing has been left out. Because if you are found to be lying, it would not go well for you. Intimidation was the obvious method of getting all the skeletons out of your closet now or never. I honestly told them that during the 4 months of delayed enlistment I was pulled over one evening as a lad of 20 years old and found with an open can of beer in my car. This turned into a misdemeanor conviction for me as Carson City was a hard nosed take no prisoners type of town. There was the running joke that possession of 1 marijuana seed would get you 7 years in one of our lovely prisons we have there in town. Anyways, I informed the FBI agent of this, and it took them 30 minutes to tell me adios, we don't want you anymore. Go home. A total state of shock hit me as I now felt like a street urchin , with nowhere to go, back home was out of the question as my mom and I had been butting heads for the last year and that door was now closed. Inside the MEPS station though were recruitment offices for each branch of military and I figured my only option left was to enlist with one of the other branches since Air Force was out. I walked by both Army and Marine offices, thinking to myself, the limited offerings they would have for me for a job that translated well into a civilian career and instead knocked on Navy's door. I told them what had just happened and they admitted that their standards were a bit more relaxed than Air Force, but still I would need a waiver to be accepted. In the meantime they had 2 rates open at the moment, Gunner's Mate Technician, and Radioman. I quickly chose Radioman (which is not really the job one immediatley thinks of from vietnam, a grunt with a radio backpack amongst the riflemen in a Marine unit. Much more now, computers, IT, communications, etc). They flew me that very night to San Diego for bootcamp as my waiver passed, and I started my new life working for Uncle Sam in the Navy.
Regarding ATC's though.... I know a handful of them as I live close to Fresno's airport and have played baseball with them and they concur with the facts of the stressful life many ATC's work with. High issues of alcoholism and suicide. No thanks. They do make good money though. Did you know another profession that has a huge rate of suicide you'd never think? Veterinarians. The field I originally wished to pursue since I was a child. -
In 2001, IAD was too inconvenient to service DC by itself. There was no mass transit system in place and the express road was more limited. DCA was necessary.
Since that time, a metro line has been installed directly tying the airport to DC and the express lanes have been expanded. 66 going into DC has also seen a reduction in traffic thanks to the dynamic tolling and HOV Toll Free policies. IAD is much more easily accessible than it was, and the airport still has tremendous amounts of space available to expand and modernize.
They may not shut down DCA, but it is not nearly as necessary as it was.
@LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
In 2001, IAD was too inconvenient to service DC by itself. There was no mass transit system in place and the express road was more limited. DCA was necessary.
Since that time, a metro line has been installed directly tying the airport to DC and the express lanes have been expanded. 66 going into DC has also seen a reduction in traffic thanks to the dynamic tolling and HOV Toll Free policies. IAD is much more easily accessible than it was, and the airport still has tremendous amounts of space available to expand and modernize.
They may not shut down DCA, but it is not nearly as necessary as it was.
In general your analysis is correct but there is an absolute ZERO chance DCA will be going away. It's the busiest airport in the area, including BWI and Dulles, it serves 25 million passengers each year (70,000 per day), and is highly convenient to the city. I also very much prefer it when I fly in (I fly in next month) because it's so much faster to get in and out of the airport, to rental cars, etc.
-
FFS, now the far right idiots are claiming the Blackhawk pilot was Trans and on CHT.
The Brad
-
-
FFS, now the far right idiots are claiming the Blackhawk pilot was Trans and on CHT.
@LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
FFS, now the far right idiots are claiming the Blackhawk pilot was Trans and on CHT.
Imagine being his wife and having to listen to that shit.
-
@Doctor-Phibes said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
Has it occurred to anybody that this could just be a tragic accident caused by a very challenging working environment, and that disabled black lesbians weren't in some way to blame?
I think most aviation experts and most folks here agree it was likely a tragic accident caused by the helicopter pilot not looking left (or looking at the wrong plane). Most likely all key folks here (the two pilots and ATC guy) were all white straight men, too.
@89th said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
Has it occurred to anybody that this could just be a tragic accident caused by a very challenging working environment, and that disabled black lesbians weren't in some way to blame?
I think most aviation experts and most folks here agree it was likely a tragic accident caused by the helicopter pilot not looking left (or looking at the wrong plane). Most likely all key folks here (the two pilots and ATC guy) were all white straight men, too.
Wrong. The Blackhawk helicopter pilot was a woman.
The Brad
-
Control the helicopter traffic (or do away with it) and adequately staff the tower.
This ain't rocket surgery.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
-
@89th said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
Has it occurred to anybody that this could just be a tragic accident caused by a very challenging working environment, and that disabled black lesbians weren't in some way to blame?
I think most aviation experts and most folks here agree it was likely a tragic accident caused by the helicopter pilot not looking left (or looking at the wrong plane). Most likely all key folks here (the two pilots and ATC guy) were all white straight men, too.
Wrong. The Blackhawk helicopter pilot was a woman.
@LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@89th said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
Has it occurred to anybody that this could just be a tragic accident caused by a very challenging working environment, and that disabled black lesbians weren't in some way to blame?
I think most aviation experts and most folks here agree it was likely a tragic accident caused by the helicopter pilot not looking left (or looking at the wrong plane). Most likely all key folks here (the two pilots and ATC guy) were all white straight men, too.
Wrong. The Blackhawk helicopter pilot was a woman.
That makes me update my intuitive probabilities away from an intentional act and towards pure accident. I was always leaning strongly that way, but now more strongly.
-
Control the helicopter traffic (or do away with it) and adequately staff the tower.
This ain't rocket surgery.
@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
Control the helicopter traffic (or do away with it) and adequately staff the tower.
This ain't rocket surgery.
The helicopter traffic will not be going away along that stretch…
-
@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
Control the helicopter traffic (or do away with it) and adequately staff the tower.
This ain't rocket surgery.
The helicopter traffic will not be going away along that stretch…
@LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
Control the helicopter traffic (or do away with it) and adequately staff the tower.
This ain't rocket surgery.
The helicopter traffic will not be going away along that stretch…
I'm not familiar with the area, but a heliport is not as expensive a fix as expanding an airport. There's no place to move the helicopter traffic?
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
-
The FAA loves to make regulations, they will make some changes based on this event.
But to be honest this event is so rare I'm not sure it should cause a lot of changes, of course we don't have the final report yet.
The FAA requires that Air Traffic Controller (ATC) trainees be 30 years old or younger, max retirement age is 56.
-
@LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
Control the helicopter traffic (or do away with it) and adequately staff the tower.
This ain't rocket surgery.
The helicopter traffic will not be going away along that stretch…
I'm not familiar with the area, but a heliport is not as expensive a fix as expanding an airport. There's no place to move the helicopter traffic?
@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
Control the helicopter traffic (or do away with it) and adequately staff the tower.
This ain't rocket surgery.
The helicopter traffic will not be going away along that stretch…
I'm not familiar with the area, but a heliport is not as expensive a fix as expanding an airport. There's no place to move the helicopter traffic?
That heli traffic is there for a reason.
-
@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
Control the helicopter traffic (or do away with it) and adequately staff the tower.
This ain't rocket surgery.
The helicopter traffic will not be going away along that stretch…
I'm not familiar with the area, but a heliport is not as expensive a fix as expanding an airport. There's no place to move the helicopter traffic?
That heli traffic is there for a reason.
@LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
That heli traffic is there for a reason.
Yes, if you try to sneak up on the city in your Cessna by flying below radar down the Potomac from Cabin John, you will meet someone or something that will shoot you down.
I heard this from a guy who put these facilities in place, and he would deny that he ever said a word about it.
I heard this at least 10 years ago, so I'm not sure if it is still in place.
-
@LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
That heli traffic is there for a reason.
Yes, if you try to sneak up on the city in your Cessna by flying below radar down the Potomac from Cabin John, you will meet someone or something that will shoot you down.
I heard this from a guy who put these facilities in place, and he would deny that he ever said a word about it.
I heard this at least 10 years ago, so I'm not sure if it is still in place.
@Copper said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@LuFins-Dad said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
That heli traffic is there for a reason.
Yes, if you try to sneak up on the city in your Cessna by flying below radar down the Potomac from Cabin John, you will meet someone or something that will shoot you down.
I heard this from a guy who put these facilities in place, and he would deny that he ever said a word about it.
I heard this at least 10 years ago, so I'm not sure if it is still in place.
Yeah gotta love the surface to air missile launchers off of Clara Barton parkway, Andrew AFB, etc. Fun to see...somewhat in plain sight. Part of Operation Noble Eagle I believe.
This is a view from the road (I used to drive by every day). See something...?
-
-
That’s interesting.
