Helicopter Crash in DC
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@89th said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
Incredible. January too. Reminded me of the Air Florida icy river crash in 1980 or so.
I remember that one, I left work early because of the snow
We watched Lennie Skutnick - the hero on live tv, an innocent bystander, he dove into the Potomac and rescued a passenger, maybe it was a stewardess
@Copper said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
@89th said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
Incredible. January too. Reminded me of the Air Florida icy river crash in 1980 or so.
I remember that one, I left work early because of the snow
We watched Lennie Skutnick - the hero on live tv, an innocent bystander, he dove into the Potomac and rescued a passenger, maybe it was a stewardess
Yeah he kept helping people into life rings from the helicopter but when they came back for him, he was gone
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Live tower audio. The helicopter was told to maintain visual separation and fly BEHIND the jet. Obviously it seems this is a major piloting issue by the army chopper. "Fly behind CRJ, visual sep" around 17:32, with background reaction voices at 17:49 or so.
https://archive.liveatc.net/kdca/KDCA1-Twr-Jan-30-2025-0130Z.mp3
UPDATE: Better link for the audio. The helicopter pilot is heard at 0:10 "aircraft in sight, visual separation".
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Blue Streak 5342 is the CRJ. Pat 25 is the helo
4 mins prior to crash: "Tower, Blue Streak 5342 on Mount Vernon Visual Runway 1"
"Blue Streak 5342, Washington Tower, winds are 320/17G25 can you take Runway 33?"
30 sec pause
"Yeah we can do Runway 33 for Bluestreak 5342"
"Bluestreak 5342 (unclear) bridge make the turn for 33, cleared to land 33"
"Change to Runway 33, cleared to land 33 bluestreak 5342"
Other traffic being handled to Runway 1.
Approx 2.5 mins to crash:
Pat25: "PAT25 memorial."
Tower: Pat25 rodger.
Approx 1:20 till crash:
Tower: "PAT25 traffic just south of (unclear) bridge is a CRJ at 1,200ft turning for Runway 33"
PAT25: PAT25 has the Traffic in sight, request visual separation
Tower: Visual separation approved.
Tower: "American 1631 winds are (unclear) no delay, traffic on 3 mile final for Runway 33 cleared for immediate takeoff"
"Cleared for takeoff, AA1631"
Approximately 10 seconds prior to collision
Tower: "PAT25 do you have the CRJ in sight?"
Tower: "PAT25 (unclear maybe pass behind) CRJ"
Pat25: Affirm. Pat 25 has traffic in sight request visual separation.
Tower: Separation.
15 seconds later
"Tower, AA472 (unclear)"
"American 472 washington tower" alarms going off "Oooh!" "Oh my god!" *click
15 seconds later
"Tower, did you see that?"
Tower frantically begins commanding go arounds and deconfliction.
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God, how awful. Was it very windy last night? It was around here. Not sure whether that could have contributed
I was only joking
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God, how awful. Was it very windy last night? It was around here. Not sure whether that could have contributed
@Doctor-Phibes said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
God, how awful. Was it very windy last night? It was around here. Not sure whether that could have contributed
Yes.
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Just an opinion...
Jets like the Bombardier don't have a lot of visibility looking down from the cockpit. The helicopter surely has a lot more total visibility. With all the lights of that urban setting at night and figuring in the short runways, I'm guessing Reagan is not an easy place to land at that time of the day.
Going forward, we're going to have to address helicopters and commercial jet traffic, and whether any helicopter visual separation is allowed by the tower (assuming the tower has the helicopter on radar).
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
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God, how awful. Was it very windy last night? It was around here. Not sure whether that could have contributed
@Doctor-Phibes said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
God, how awful. Was it very windy last night? It was around here. Not sure whether that could have contributed
Yeah, what's worse (I guess) is they were approved and lined up for the main runway (Runway 1) but due to the wind the pilot asked to land on Runway 33 instead, which is not abnormal for CRJs at the airport. Fatal change.
If I were a betting man, I bet the pilot of the helicopter was looking either at the CRJ that just took off or a CRJ lined up for Runway 1 (which would've been straight in front of him) and didn't see (obviously) the CRJ lined up for Runway 33 which is about a 45 degree difference to his left as he was flying forward.
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And at least one of those on the Blackhawk was a trainee…
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Just an opinion...
Jets like the Bombardier don't have a lot of visibility looking down from the cockpit. The helicopter surely has a lot more total visibility. With all the lights of that urban setting at night and figuring in the short runways, I'm guessing Reagan is not an easy place to land at that time of the day.
Going forward, we're going to have to address helicopters and commercial jet traffic, and whether any helicopter visual separation is allowed by the tower (assuming the tower has the helicopter on radar).
@Jolly said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
Just an opinion...
Jets like the Bombardier don't have a lot of visibility looking down from the cockpit. The helicopter surely has a lot more total visibility. With all the lights of that urban setting at night and figuring in the short runways, I'm guessing Reagan is not an easy place to land at that time of the day.
Going forward, we're going to have to address helicopters and commercial jet traffic, and whether any helicopter visual separation is allowed by the tower (assuming the tower has the helicopter on radar).
Yes the pilots were absolutely focused on the landing, since it's a shorter runway and windy. This is 100% the helicopter pilot's fault, a sad accident.
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@George-K said in Helicopter Crash in DC:
As @Copper and @LuFins-Dad and others can attest, this is absolutely normal. Multiple, multiple times per day you'll see blackhawks and other helicopters going up and down the Potomac. Like, if you were playing golf at Hains Point you'll have a helicopter go over you within 30 minutes, guaranteed.
