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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Why Analog Is Better

Why Analog Is Better

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  • KlausK Online
    KlausK Online
    Klaus
    wrote on last edited by
    #2

    You have one car that can drive 50mph and another one which can do everything the first car can but it can also drive 100mph.

    The authors argument is that the 50mph car is better because you can better appreciate the views and scenery at 50mph, which is a silly argument because you can also simply choose to drive the 100mph car at a slow speed.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • JollyJ Offline
      JollyJ Offline
      Jolly
      wrote on last edited by
      #3

      That's not his only argument.

      In one of his arguments -to use the car analogy - you have a car that lasts fifty years and still works vs. a car that lasts less than ten years, and has to be replaced with another car.

      Secondly, the fifty year car uses common parts with cars from the same era and is compatible in some ways with newer systems vs. the new car which has no new parts available.

      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

      AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
      • George KG Offline
        George KG Offline
        George K
        wrote on last edited by
        #4

        Interesting. I am reminded of the video of Glenn Gould recording something over and over again (Goldbergs, iirc) and then, in production, splicing in a phrase here and here.

        Oh, I had one of these. I think I bought it in 1972. I'd record CSO concerts off the air.

        Screenshot 2025-01-02 at 7.58.35 AM.png

        Of course @kluurs will chime in and embarrass me.

        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

        kluursK RenaudaR 2 Replies Last reply
        • Doctor PhibesD Offline
          Doctor PhibesD Offline
          Doctor Phibes
          wrote on last edited by
          #5

          I'm trying not to compare his approach to technology with his approach to getting a haircut, but it's not easy.

          I was only joking

          1 Reply Last reply
          • George KG George K

            Interesting. I am reminded of the video of Glenn Gould recording something over and over again (Goldbergs, iirc) and then, in production, splicing in a phrase here and here.

            Oh, I had one of these. I think I bought it in 1972. I'd record CSO concerts off the air.

            Screenshot 2025-01-02 at 7.58.35 AM.png

            Of course @kluurs will chime in and embarrass me.

            kluursK Offline
            kluursK Offline
            kluurs
            wrote on last edited by
            #6

            @George-K said in Why Analog Is Better:

            Interesting. I am reminded of the video of Glenn Gould recording something over and over again (Goldbergs, iirc) and then, in production, splicing in a phrase here and here.

            Oh, I had one of these. I think I bought it in 1972. I'd record CSO concerts off the air.

            Screenshot 2025-01-02 at 7.58.35 AM.png

            Of course @kluurs will chime in and embarrass me.

            Great or in my case, not so great, minds think alike. I did recordings off the air. I used a Nakamichi cassette deck off of a Mcintosh tuner so your fidelity might have been better.

            George KG 1 Reply Last reply
            • kluursK kluurs

              @George-K said in Why Analog Is Better:

              Interesting. I am reminded of the video of Glenn Gould recording something over and over again (Goldbergs, iirc) and then, in production, splicing in a phrase here and here.

              Oh, I had one of these. I think I bought it in 1972. I'd record CSO concerts off the air.

              Screenshot 2025-01-02 at 7.58.35 AM.png

              Of course @kluurs will chime in and embarrass me.

              Great or in my case, not so great, minds think alike. I did recordings off the air. I used a Nakamichi cassette deck off of a Mcintosh tuner so your fidelity might have been better.

              George KG Offline
              George KG Offline
              George K
              wrote on last edited by
              #7

              @kluurs unlikely that my fidelity was any better.

              Because tape was expensive, I usually ran it at 3 3/4 ips. Also, this is before the days of Dolby, so hiss and other noise were a real consideration.

              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • CopperC Offline
                CopperC Offline
                Copper
                wrote on last edited by
                #8

                I had a Radio Shack reel-to-reel like that.

                I used it to record FM radio music. I would jump up and hit record when a song I wanted came on. I usually missed the beginning of the song.

                I had a few store-bought reel-to-reel albums they went into the trash recently.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • George KG George K

                  Interesting. I am reminded of the video of Glenn Gould recording something over and over again (Goldbergs, iirc) and then, in production, splicing in a phrase here and here.

                  Oh, I had one of these. I think I bought it in 1972. I'd record CSO concerts off the air.

                  Screenshot 2025-01-02 at 7.58.35 AM.png

                  Of course @kluurs will chime in and embarrass me.

                  RenaudaR Offline
                  RenaudaR Offline
                  Renauda
                  wrote on last edited by Renauda
                  #9

                  @George-K said in Why Analog Is Better:

                  Interesting. I am reminded of the video of Glenn Gould recording something over and over again (Goldbergs, iirc) and then, in production, splicing in a phrase here and here.

                  Oh, I had one of these. I think I bought it in 1972. I'd record CSO concerts off the air.

                  Screenshot 2025-01-02 at 7.58.35 AM.png

                  There was a time when I dreamed of having one of those.

                  In the 80s though I did buy a Magnavox hifi VHS (it was damned expensive too as I recall) and discovered that I could make excellent quality audio tapes on it using Kodak two hour VHS cassettes set to SP. I transferred much of my classical vinyl to that format so that I would only play the vinyl once when it was brought home new. The result is that I still have classical vinyl in the basement storage that has been played once. I know that my premier recording box set of Shostakovich’s 15 string quartets by the Fitzwilliam Quartet is one. As are a couple of other Early Music Consort box set recordings that are once played.

                  Elbows up!

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • 89th8 Offline
                    89th8 Offline
                    89th
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #10

                    If I had to pick out of 1,000 people who would make that analog is better video, I would've guessed correctly. All jokes aside, he is passionate and knows the craft well. I don't agree with him that "computer is not that reliable" but certainly see the point that there is a missing performance/craft factor when you have to record "live" (sort of) and have to be more deliberate with your playing and editing.

                    All that being said... there doesn't need to be a "which is better" winner. It's like comparing painting on canvas to digital design. Go with the output and process you prefer, or go with both. Life is short. I'd like to get a record player one day for the various reasons (audio difference, physical aspect, album structure, deliberate choice to change music) and I might even be the weirdo that gets a typewriter one day to write letters to my grandkids. Not to be weird, but to show that each keystroke had value, even though I know you can argue that each pen stroke also has value with handwritten letters.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • George KG Offline
                      George KG Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on last edited by George K
                      #11

                      There used to be a medium-end music store in the Chicago area called “MusicCraft.” I bought that particular tape deck at MusicCraft having saved up about $350 from my summer job working in a tube factory. This was in 1974, so do the appropriate inflation adjustment.

                      This particular deck was heavily discounted because it had been “used “. It’s not that it had been played by anyone it was used as a prop on “mission impossible “. In fact, the shipping box had a label on it that said “attention “Bruce Geller, Century City California. “

                      So, I ended up paying about 30% off of retail price for this deck. It served me quite well for about 10 years. By then, cassettes had become the norm. I did have a respectable collection of vinyl, but it had not been maintained in pristine state.

                      And yes, VHS hi-fi was quite the thing. I remember purchasing a VCR deck specifically for that purpose, in 1984, I think it was about $950.

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • JollyJ Jolly

                        That's not his only argument.

                        In one of his arguments -to use the car analogy - you have a car that lasts fifty years and still works vs. a car that lasts less than ten years, and has to be replaced with another car.

                        Secondly, the fifty year car uses common parts with cars from the same era and is compatible in some ways with newer systems vs. the new car which has no new parts available.

                        AxtremusA Offline
                        AxtremusA Offline
                        Axtremus
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #12

                        @Jolly said in Why Analog Is Better:

                        In one of his arguments -to use the car analogy - you have a car that lasts fifty years and still works vs. a car that lasts less than ten years, and has to be replaced with another car.

                        Analog signals start to deteriorate the moment it is recorded. No such thing as perfect preservation or perfect reproduction with analog.

                        Digital is the one that allows perfect reproduction, and through that, perfect preservation, in theory indefinitely.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • JollyJ Offline
                          JollyJ Offline
                          Jolly
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #13

                          In theory.

                          In practice? Ten years before the next digital media?

                          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                          George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                          • JollyJ Jolly

                            In theory.

                            In practice? Ten years before the next digital media?

                            George KG Offline
                            George KG Offline
                            George K
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #14

                            @Jolly said in Why Analog Is Better:

                            In theory.

                            In practice? Ten years before the next digital media?

                            I remember reading a statistic that claimed that the audio market only supports two mediums at one time.

                            78/45

                            LP/45

                            LP/8-track

                            LP/Cassette

                            Cassette/CD

                            CD/Streaming

                            I'm sure there are minor variations, but you get the idea.

                            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                            89th8 1 Reply Last reply
                            • AxtremusA Offline
                              AxtremusA Offline
                              Axtremus
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #15

                              For digitized information, storage is storage.

                              You can even upload it into the "cloud" and let someone else worry about changing storage media.

                              JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                              • RenaudaR Offline
                                RenaudaR Offline
                                Renauda
                                wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                #16

                                Analog is wonderful audio source medium so long as you have the hifi equipment that has the technical ability to bring out its magnificence. That costs plenty of $$$$ or ££££ or €€€€. A moderately priced digital format and system can attain a similar quality of consistent sound at a much more affordable price.

                                I find ironic that bunch of over 60 old men can argue about this let alone tell the difference. I have met maybe one person who regularly dropped by the hifi audio store who allegedly could, but then he owned a McIntosh hifi system with Harbeth speakers and accesssories that was worth cost him $100 k.

                                Elbows up!

                                George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                • RenaudaR Renauda

                                  Analog is wonderful audio source medium so long as you have the hifi equipment that has the technical ability to bring out its magnificence. That costs plenty of $$$$ or ££££ or €€€€. A moderately priced digital format and system can attain a similar quality of consistent sound at a much more affordable price.

                                  I find ironic that bunch of over 60 old men can argue about this let alone tell the difference. I have met maybe one person who regularly dropped by the hifi audio store who allegedly could, but then he owned a McIntosh hifi system with Harbeth speakers and accesssories that was worth cost him $100 k.

                                  George KG Offline
                                  George KG Offline
                                  George K
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #17

                                  @Renauda said in Why Analog Is Better:

                                  I find ironic that bunch of over 60 old men can argue about this let alone tell the difference.

                                  Not surprising that they can tell a difference.

                                  Doubtful as to whether they could identify which is which.

                                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • RenaudaR Offline
                                    RenaudaR Offline
                                    Renauda
                                    wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                    #18

                                    @George-K

                                    Exactly. I doubt if I could and my hearing is pretty damn good for my age according to the audiologist.

                                    Elbows up!

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • AxtremusA Axtremus

                                      For digitized information, storage is storage.

                                      You can even upload it into the "cloud" and let someone else worry about changing storage media.

                                      JollyJ Offline
                                      JollyJ Offline
                                      Jolly
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #19

                                      @Axtremus Once in The Cloud you are at the mercy of The Cloud.

                                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                      George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • JollyJ Jolly

                                        @Axtremus Once in The Cloud you are at the mercy of The Cloud.

                                        George KG Offline
                                        George KG Offline
                                        George K
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #20

                                        @Jolly said in Why Analog Is Better:

                                        @Axtremus Once in The Cloud you are at the mercy of The Cloud.

                                        "The cloud" = "Somebody else's computer."

                                        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                        89th8 AxtremusA 2 Replies Last reply
                                        • George KG George K

                                          @Jolly said in Why Analog Is Better:

                                          @Axtremus Once in The Cloud you are at the mercy of The Cloud.

                                          "The cloud" = "Somebody else's computer."

                                          89th8 Offline
                                          89th8 Offline
                                          89th
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #21

                                          @George-K

                                          Well, somebody else’s computers, backed up many times, and replicated, and stored in extremely stable, cool, and protected environments.

                                          But yes you’re right. The cloud is just another computer(s).

                                          JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
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