Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism

[George K]

Cooper speaks.

[Doctor Phibes]

The most important historian in the United States is scared of some silly old British historian?

[Horace]

So he is still doing his research, and was well out over his skis in the Tucker interview?

[Renauda]

[taiwan_girl]

[George K]

Piers Morgan interviews Roberts and Seth Dillon (Babylon Bee):

Link to video

00:00 - Teaser
01:02 - Piers' monologue on Winston Churchill
02:20 - Historian Andrew Roberts reacts to Tucker Carlson interview with Darryl Cooper
07:00 - Cooper accuses Churchill of ‘rank terrorism’
10:20 - Did Churchill ‘drag’ the US into World War II?
11:50 - Cooper slams Churchill as a ‘psychopath’ and ‘drunk’
16:00 - Dave Smith labels Cooper a ‘national treasure’
22:45 - Piers slams Dave for comparing the Iraq War and World War II
24:08 - Seth Dillon: Cooper is a Hitler apologist
26:50 - Piers: How would you have tackled Hitler and the Nazis, Dave?
29:57 - Should Tucker have asked about the Holocaust?
32:00 - Seth slams Tucker Carlson
33:50 - Is there enough free speech amongst historians?
41:30 - Increased criticism of Churchill over the last few years

[Horace]

Cooper released a podcast containing his "last word" on the topic, until he releases his WW2 series, after he completes his research. He says that the controversy and push-back will inform his take. He leans into the fact that he framed it as hyperbole to begin with. His intent is to think about ways in which maybe the holocaust didn't need to happen if people other than Hitler had acted differently. He analogizes to a domestic violence situation where an unhinged husband has his wife held hostage, and ways for the cops to deal with it that don't end with a murder / suicide. He never intended to frame the husband as the good guy or as inculpable, he only means to think about ways to manage the situation that don't end up with a worst case scenario. He is clear that Hitler was a mass murderer.

I don't think he mentioned whether he does or does not self-identify as a fascist, but something tells me he does not.

[jon-nyc]

You think Bari Weis would have made that up or copied it from a twitter rando?

[Horace]

@George-K said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

Piers Morgan interviews Roberts and Seth Dillon (Babylon Bee):

Link to video

00:00 - Teaser
01:02 - Piers' monologue on Winston Churchill
02:20 - Historian Andrew Roberts reacts to Tucker Carlson interview with Darryl Cooper
07:00 - Cooper accuses Churchill of ‘rank terrorism’
10:20 - Did Churchill ‘drag’ the US into World War II?
11:50 - Cooper slams Churchill as a ‘psychopath’ and ‘drunk’
16:00 - Dave Smith labels Cooper a ‘national treasure’
22:45 - Piers slams Dave for comparing the Iraq War and World War II
24:08 - Seth Dillon: Cooper is a Hitler apologist
26:50 - Piers: How would you have tackled Hitler and the Nazis, Dave?
29:57 - Should Tucker have asked about the Holocaust?
32:00 - Seth slams Tucker Carlson
33:50 - Is there enough free speech amongst historians?
41:30 - Increased criticism of Churchill over the last few years

Even the white house released a statement about Tucker's interview. Lots of political hay to be made painting "the right" as neo nazis. The fact that Carlson has long been divorced from any mainstream right, goes conveniently unacknowledged. And of course, accurate characterizations of the interview itself are very rare. "Cooper is wrong about this and this and this fact in the interview, and therefore he's a Hitler apologist". Those sorts of conclusions are generally non-sequiturs.

[Horace]

@jon-nyc said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

You think Bari Weis would have made that up or copied it from a twitter rando?

I doubt a great deal of care was applied in verifying the quote or its context. I also tend to give some grace to people that they may say things in certain contexts that they wouldn't categorically avow in an adversarial dunking contest. You'll never listen to or read anything from Cooper, but if you did, I doubt you'd come away with the impression that he's a fascist.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

The fact that Carlson has long been divorced from any mainstream right, goes conveniently unacknowledged.

I thought he was like massively popular among American conservatives. I read it right here.

It might be a divorce, but it was pretty amicable.

[Horace]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

The fact that Carlson has long been divorced from any mainstream right, goes conveniently unacknowledged.

I thought he was like massively popular among American conservatives. I read it right here.

It might be a divorce, but it was pretty amicable.

Conservatives still like him more than they like Maddow, that won't be changing any time soon. One plays the media hand one is dealt.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

Conservatives still like him more than they like Maddow, that won't be changing any time soon. One plays the media hand one is dealt.

Presumably, not watching either of them would be considered un-American.

[Horace]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

Conservatives still like him more than they like Maddow, that won't be changing any time soon. One plays the media hand one is dealt.

Presumably, not watching either of them would be considered un-American.

Watching does not imply slavishly trusting.

[Renauda]

@Horace

You'll never listen to or read anything from Cooper, but if you did, I doubt you'd come away with the impression that he's a fascist.

As already stated above, I listened to the WWII portion of the FuCa interview. I was not left with impression that Cooper was a Fascist nor did I think that he was much of an apologist for Hitler. I did however leave with the impression he could not be described as an historian. At best, I would regard him as a reader of history whose understanding of his subject is stunted for undisclosed reasons. In short, an example of intellectual immaturity masquerading as enlightenment.

Not sure if he has any sort of world view or ideological outlook other than what he thinks might be a part time libertarian of convenience or ersatz Objectivist because he read excerpts or an abridgement of Atlas Shrugged for Dummies.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

@Doctor-Phibes said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

Conservatives still like him more than they like Maddow, that won't be changing any time soon. One plays the media hand one is dealt.

Presumably, not watching either of them would be considered un-American.

Watching does not imply slavishly trusting.

Isn't that what drama shows are for?

I mean, far be it from to suggest that people are wasting their lives watching Tucker Carlson when they could be watching actual cartoons or something.

Maybe I'm weird, but I don't see the appeal of watching these talking heads spouting utter shite. There's so much that's genuinely worth listening to.

If you want to learn about history, and you honestly think a good place to start is Tucker Carlson, then it might be worth re-evaluating your life-choices.

[Horace]

@Renauda said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

@Horace

You'll never listen to or read anything from Cooper, but if you did, I doubt you'd come away with the impression that he's a fascist.

As already stated above, I listened to the WWII portion of the FuCa interview. I was not left with impression that Cooper was a Fascist nor did I think that he was much of an apologist for Hitler. I did however leave with the impression he could not be described as an historian. At best, I would regard him as a reader of history whose understanding of his subject is stunted for undisclosed reasons. In short, an example of intellectual immaturity masquerading as enlightenment.

Not sure if he has any sort of world view or ideological outlook other than what he thinks might be a part time libertarian of convenience or ersatz Objectivist because he read excerpts or an abridgement of Atlas Shrugged for Dummies.

Certainly that is all fair enough. I appreciate opinions that aren't simple recitations of dunks from Twitter.

[Renauda]

@Horace

Thank you. I do not consult Twitter or X for my information or news. The only time I encounter it is here; the odd time it is worth exploring further but for most part it is facile gossip and a waste of bandwidth.

[jon-nyc]

[Jolly]

Thread necromancy has limited appeal. It's like trying to pick up a conversation from years ago.