Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism

[Horace]

@jon-nyc said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

How do you square that with the evidence from the Dominion trial? He would privately loathe Trump and publicly fellate him. You don’t think that was for popularity?

It’s established that he had writers and less than full editorial control on Fox. Anyway, he didn't systematically say that privately. He said it in one situation where Trump was promising him evidence of election fraud and Tucker was running with the story on-air based on that. When no evidence was forthcoming, Tucker got pissed and vented over text.

[Jolly]

Don't ruin the mood. Jon had to pay for those blue pills, you know.

[jon-nyc]

Bari Weiss interviews VDH about this on her latest podcast.

The show notes:

Tucker Carlson is perhaps the country’s most influential conservative commentator; his eponymous podcast is routinely among the most downloaded shows on the internet. >Despite his endless fulminations against the mainstream media, Carlson has an impeccable mainstream media pedigree. He’s hit for the cycle on cable news, having hosted shows on Fox, MSNBC, and CNN. After he was fired from Fox News in 2023, under circumstances that are still hotly disputed, Carlson quickly reconstituted his career on his own—free of corporate shackles, with no institutional guardrails, and with a professed willingness to explore topics that his former mainstream media colleagues wouldn’t touch.
Last week on his show, he did just that, airing an interview with a man most people in the mainstream won’t touch: a podcaster named Darryl Cooper, who Carlson called “the most important historian in the United States.”
In reality, Cooper is an amateur historian with no publishing record—no books, no academic articles. He produces a popular history podcast called Martyr Made, in which he does deep dives into subjects like the Israel-Palestine conflict, the cult of Reverend Jim Jones, and the trials of Jeffrey Epstein. He has previously described his personal politics as those of a “non-racist fascist.”
On Carlson’s show, Cooper demonstrated some of those fascist tendencies when he identified Winston Churchill—not Adolf Hitler—as the “chief villain” of World War II. He wasn’t a hero at all, Cooper argued, but a “psychopath” who forced Nazi Germany into a war that it didn’t want. And what of the Holocaust? Cooper doesn’t speak of Jewish victims, but vaguely and airily of “prisoners of war. . . local political prisoners and so forth” who the Nazis “just threw. . . into camps, and millions of people ended up dead.” 
In September 1941, a mere week after Nazi troops occupied the Ukrainian capital of Kiev, that city’s Jews were ordered to congregate for “resettlement.” Under threat of severe punishment, they obliged. . . and were loaded into trucks to be transported a short distance to Babi Yar, a ravine just north of the city. In a two-day orgy of violence, 33,000 Jews ended up dead. Innocents, not prisoners of war; children forced to lie on top of those pushed into the pit before them, then executed with a bullet in the back of the head. This is how they ended up dead.
Tucker Carlson, who has the ear of millions of conservatives, including Donald Trump, and who secured a prime time speaking spot at the Republican National Convention, said nothing in response to Cooper’s revisionism. No pushback. Not an arched eyebrow. Just unalloyed praise for an extremist autodidact, America’s “best” historian.
Cooper defended himself on Twitter by assuring his critics that Hitler was indeed desperate to make peace and was also willing to “work with the other powers to reach an acceptable solution to the Jewish problem.” Jewish problem was not in quotes. When another user pointed this out, Cooper responded: “Was there not a problem involving the Jews in Europe at the time?”
Hitler apologia and antisemitism packaged as brave historical inquiry is not new. We’ve heard versions of these arguments from cranks, extremists, and anti-Americans on the left and right, for decades. But why is there a sudden resurgence of these odious ideas on the American right? 
Today, we talk to Victor Davis Hanson to help us answer this question. Hanson is a classicist and historian, the author of two dozen books, including the critically acclaimed The Second World Wars: How the First Global Conflict Was Fought and Won. And for years, Hanson was a weekly guest on Tucker Carlson’s television show

[George K]

Cooper speaks.

[Doctor Phibes]

The most important historian in the United States is scared of some silly old British historian?

[Horace]

So he is still doing his research, and was well out over his skis in the Tucker interview?

[Renauda]

[taiwan_girl]

[George K]

Piers Morgan interviews Roberts and Seth Dillon (Babylon Bee):

Link to video

00:00 - Teaser
01:02 - Piers' monologue on Winston Churchill
02:20 - Historian Andrew Roberts reacts to Tucker Carlson interview with Darryl Cooper
07:00 - Cooper accuses Churchill of ‘rank terrorism’
10:20 - Did Churchill ‘drag’ the US into World War II?
11:50 - Cooper slams Churchill as a ‘psychopath’ and ‘drunk’
16:00 - Dave Smith labels Cooper a ‘national treasure’
22:45 - Piers slams Dave for comparing the Iraq War and World War II
24:08 - Seth Dillon: Cooper is a Hitler apologist
26:50 - Piers: How would you have tackled Hitler and the Nazis, Dave?
29:57 - Should Tucker have asked about the Holocaust?
32:00 - Seth slams Tucker Carlson
33:50 - Is there enough free speech amongst historians?
41:30 - Increased criticism of Churchill over the last few years

[Horace]

Cooper released a podcast containing his "last word" on the topic, until he releases his WW2 series, after he completes his research. He says that the controversy and push-back will inform his take. He leans into the fact that he framed it as hyperbole to begin with. His intent is to think about ways in which maybe the holocaust didn't need to happen if people other than Hitler had acted differently. He analogizes to a domestic violence situation where an unhinged husband has his wife held hostage, and ways for the cops to deal with it that don't end with a murder / suicide. He never intended to frame the husband as the good guy or as inculpable, he only means to think about ways to manage the situation that don't end up with a worst case scenario. He is clear that Hitler was a mass murderer.

I don't think he mentioned whether he does or does not self-identify as a fascist, but something tells me he does not.

[jon-nyc]

You think Bari Weis would have made that up or copied it from a twitter rando?

[Horace]

@George-K said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

Piers Morgan interviews Roberts and Seth Dillon (Babylon Bee):

Link to video

00:00 - Teaser
01:02 - Piers' monologue on Winston Churchill
02:20 - Historian Andrew Roberts reacts to Tucker Carlson interview with Darryl Cooper
07:00 - Cooper accuses Churchill of ‘rank terrorism’
10:20 - Did Churchill ‘drag’ the US into World War II?
11:50 - Cooper slams Churchill as a ‘psychopath’ and ‘drunk’
16:00 - Dave Smith labels Cooper a ‘national treasure’
22:45 - Piers slams Dave for comparing the Iraq War and World War II
24:08 - Seth Dillon: Cooper is a Hitler apologist
26:50 - Piers: How would you have tackled Hitler and the Nazis, Dave?
29:57 - Should Tucker have asked about the Holocaust?
32:00 - Seth slams Tucker Carlson
33:50 - Is there enough free speech amongst historians?
41:30 - Increased criticism of Churchill over the last few years

Even the white house released a statement about Tucker's interview. Lots of political hay to be made painting "the right" as neo nazis. The fact that Carlson has long been divorced from any mainstream right, goes conveniently unacknowledged. And of course, accurate characterizations of the interview itself are very rare. "Cooper is wrong about this and this and this fact in the interview, and therefore he's a Hitler apologist". Those sorts of conclusions are generally non-sequiturs.

[Horace]

@jon-nyc said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

You think Bari Weis would have made that up or copied it from a twitter rando?

I doubt a great deal of care was applied in verifying the quote or its context. I also tend to give some grace to people that they may say things in certain contexts that they wouldn't categorically avow in an adversarial dunking contest. You'll never listen to or read anything from Cooper, but if you did, I doubt you'd come away with the impression that he's a fascist.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

The fact that Carlson has long been divorced from any mainstream right, goes conveniently unacknowledged.

I thought he was like massively popular among American conservatives. I read it right here.

It might be a divorce, but it was pretty amicable.

[Horace]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

The fact that Carlson has long been divorced from any mainstream right, goes conveniently unacknowledged.

I thought he was like massively popular among American conservatives. I read it right here.

It might be a divorce, but it was pretty amicable.

Conservatives still like him more than they like Maddow, that won't be changing any time soon. One plays the media hand one is dealt.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

Conservatives still like him more than they like Maddow, that won't be changing any time soon. One plays the media hand one is dealt.

Presumably, not watching either of them would be considered un-American.

[Horace]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

Conservatives still like him more than they like Maddow, that won't be changing any time soon. One plays the media hand one is dealt.

Presumably, not watching either of them would be considered un-American.

Watching does not imply slavishly trusting.

[Renauda]

@Horace

You'll never listen to or read anything from Cooper, but if you did, I doubt you'd come away with the impression that he's a fascist.

As already stated above, I listened to the WWII portion of the FuCa interview. I was not left with impression that Cooper was a Fascist nor did I think that he was much of an apologist for Hitler. I did however leave with the impression he could not be described as an historian. At best, I would regard him as a reader of history whose understanding of his subject is stunted for undisclosed reasons. In short, an example of intellectual immaturity masquerading as enlightenment.

Not sure if he has any sort of world view or ideological outlook other than what he thinks might be a part time libertarian of convenience or ersatz Objectivist because he read excerpts or an abridgement of Atlas Shrugged for Dummies.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

@Doctor-Phibes said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

Conservatives still like him more than they like Maddow, that won't be changing any time soon. One plays the media hand one is dealt.

Presumably, not watching either of them would be considered un-American.

Watching does not imply slavishly trusting.

Isn't that what drama shows are for?

I mean, far be it from to suggest that people are wasting their lives watching Tucker Carlson when they could be watching actual cartoons or something.

Maybe I'm weird, but I don't see the appeal of watching these talking heads spouting utter shite. There's so much that's genuinely worth listening to.

If you want to learn about history, and you honestly think a good place to start is Tucker Carlson, then it might be worth re-evaluating your life-choices.

[Horace]

@Renauda said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

@Horace

You'll never listen to or read anything from Cooper, but if you did, I doubt you'd come away with the impression that he's a fascist.

As already stated above, I listened to the WWII portion of the FuCa interview. I was not left with impression that Cooper was a Fascist nor did I think that he was much of an apologist for Hitler. I did however leave with the impression he could not be described as an historian. At best, I would regard him as a reader of history whose understanding of his subject is stunted for undisclosed reasons. In short, an example of intellectual immaturity masquerading as enlightenment.

Not sure if he has any sort of world view or ideological outlook other than what he thinks might be a part time libertarian of convenience or ersatz Objectivist because he read excerpts or an abridgement of Atlas Shrugged for Dummies.

Certainly that is all fair enough. I appreciate opinions that aren't simple recitations of dunks from Twitter.