Well, that was blunt.
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Here's the link within the cited rebuttal:
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification
I'm sorry, but that's mostly BS. A picture ID is required to buy alcohol, cigarettes, to apply for Medicaid or Medicare, to apply for welfare or food stamps, to apply for Social Security, to drive a car, to fly on a commercial airplane, and to buy a gun.
Their argument is that it's just too hard for some people to obtain a photo ID in order to vote. If that's the case, how are these people doing anything in modern life? They aren't able to drive, buy a bottle of cheap wine, apply for welfare and Medicaid, but we need desperately for them to vote?
That's weak sauce, folks...
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@jon-nyc said in Well, that was blunt.:
Never heard of him/her. Someone I follow on twitter retweeted it
Thanks. I am not familiar with LeCun's political activism, but recognize him as a geek celebrity -- a towering figure in the A.I. / machine learning field. Turing Award winner. Chief AI Scientist at Meta/Facebook AI Research. Instrumental at developing and open-sourcing the LLaMA large language model which gave the field a big boost.
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I have a dumb question. If you don't need to supply ID when voting, what's to stop a person from voting more than once?
I guess they just check whether a registered voter self-reported as voting more than once. So the trick to voting more than once, is to vote as a registered voter who didn't vote, and also vote as yourself, showing ID neither time. This seems a low-risk felony to commit. I bet the statistics of double-voters (most of which are presumably attempted felony voter fraud) aren't reported. And of course when it works, that's not reported either. But we confidently say there is no appreciable voter fraud. How do we know?
@Horace said in Well, that was blunt.:
I have a dumb question. If you don't need to supply ID when voting, what's to stop a person from voting more than once?
I guess they just check whether a registered voter self-reported as voting more than once. So the trick to voting more than once, is to vote as a registered voter who didn't vote, and also vote as yourself, showing ID neither time. This seems a low-risk felony to commit. I bet the statistics of double-voters (most of which are presumably attempted felony voter fraud) aren't reported. And of course when it works, that's not reported either. But we confidently say there is no appreciable voter fraud. How do we know?
I also read that if you vote twice, they take the first vote. So if you want to vote for someone else, just vote early, and your fraud vote cancels their real vote. I mean, I know that this never happens, because all the smart people know it never happens, but I'm at a loss as to how we know it never happens, and how we enforce that it never happens. But definitely I know it never happens. Because I'm smart.
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The overview of the difficulties people face in getting their free photo ID, rests entirely on living > 10 miles away from the nearest ID-providing office open "more than 2 days a week". So, they could live next door to an office that provides free photo IDs twice per week, but they would be counted as someone facing prohibitive difficulties getting a free ID. I hope the AI genius' AIs draw better conclusions than he does. He is well and truly lost in his righteous tribalism.
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I have a dumb question. If you don't need to supply ID when voting, what's to stop a person from voting more than once?
I guess they just check whether a registered voter self-reported as voting more than once. So the trick to voting more than once, is to vote as a registered voter who didn't vote, and also vote as yourself, showing ID neither time. This seems a low-risk felony to commit. I bet the statistics of double-voters (most of which are presumably attempted felony voter fraud) aren't reported. And of course when it works, that's not reported either. But we confidently say there is no appreciable voter fraud. How do we know?
@Horace said in Well, that was blunt.:
I have a dumb question. If you don't need to supply ID when voting, what's to stop a person from voting more than once?
Everywhere I’ve voted they look up your registration in a book, and you sign next to it before they give you a ballot. This provides signature verification as well as checking off that you voted.
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@Horace said in Well, that was blunt.:
I have a dumb question. If you don't need to supply ID when voting, what's to stop a person from voting more than once?
Everywhere I’ve voted they look up your registration in a book, and you sign next to it before they give you a ballot. This provides signature verification as well as checking off that you voted.
@jon-nyc said in Well, that was blunt.:
@Horace said in Well, that was blunt.:
I have a dumb question. If you don't need to supply ID when voting, what's to stop a person from voting more than once?
Everywhere I’ve voted they look up your registration in a book, and you sign next to it before they give you a ballot. This provides signature verification as well as checking off that you voted.
Yes I mentioned this in the rest of that post. I know you probably skip my posts longer than two sentences as a rule, but they are often extremely informative, so you're really missing out.
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I have a dumb question. If you don't need to supply ID when voting, what's to stop a person from voting more than once?
I guess they just check whether a registered voter self-reported as voting more than once. So the trick to voting more than once, is to vote as a registered voter who didn't vote, and also vote as yourself, showing ID neither time. This seems a low-risk felony to commit. I bet the statistics of double-voters (most of which are presumably attempted felony voter fraud) aren't reported. And of course when it works, that's not reported either. But we confidently say there is no appreciable voter fraud. How do we know?
@Horace said in Well, that was blunt.:
I guess they just check whether a registered voter self-reported as voting more than once. So the trick to voting more than once, is to vote as a registered voter who didn't vote, and also vote as yourself, showing ID neither time. This seems a low-risk felony to commit.
I don’t know how low it is. The people in my town that work the polls are local. They may well know Joe Smith when I pretend to be him.
What it is, however, is a felony with zero reward. Adding one vote to the total gives you nothing. Voter fraud that requires actual humans faking registrations or faking names doesn’t scale well. To have an impact you’d need thousands of participants at which point the odds of it getting discovered approach 1.
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@Horace said in Well, that was blunt.:
I guess they just check whether a registered voter self-reported as voting more than once. So the trick to voting more than once, is to vote as a registered voter who didn't vote, and also vote as yourself, showing ID neither time. This seems a low-risk felony to commit.
I don’t know how low it is. The people in my town that work the polls are local. They may well know Joe Smith when I pretend to be him.
What it is, however, is a felony with zero reward. Adding one vote to the total gives you nothing. Voter fraud that requires actual humans faking registrations or faking names doesn’t scale well. To have an impact you’d need thousands of participants at which point the odds of it getting discovered approach 1.
The Long machine did not hand out bags of cash for nothing. Whether it was buying votes or rigging machines, it was done. There is nothing that man has ever made that can't be cheated.
For things as important as election integrity, we have to make cheating as hard as possible.
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I can see where handing cash to pastors to get their voters to the polls could be effective, and probably could be done in a way that doesn’t violate the letter of the law. But to try to get thousands of people to sign up for a felony seems really difficult. Inevitably some will refuse and talk.
Manipulation at the counting point is different obviously. There you could have a large effect with a handful of people, at least in theory.
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I can see where handing cash to pastors to get their voters to the polls could be effective, and probably could be done in a way that doesn’t violate the letter of the law. But to try to get thousands of people to sign up for a felony seems really difficult. Inevitably some will refuse and talk.
Manipulation at the counting point is different obviously. There you could have a large effect with a handful of people, at least in theory.
@jon-nyc said in Well, that was blunt.:
But to try to get thousands of people to sign up for a felony seems really difficult. Inevitably some will refuse and talk.
This. In the age where everyone wants to be famous for 15 minutes it is not reasonable to expect there is massive voter fraud with no one talking.
(BTW, in general, having a photo ID to vote is not a bad idea. I believe that in most (all?) US states, if you cannot get a driver license, you can still get a state ID.)
