Birthright Citizenship

[Axtremus]

@Mik said in Birthright Citizenship:

I know what the text is. How have courts ruled on it? That’s what precedent is.

See if “United States v. Wong Kim Ark” floats your boat.
https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep169/usrep169649/usrep169649.pdf

[George K]

@Axtremus said in Birthright Citizenship:

See if “United States v. Wong Kim Ark” floats your boat.
https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep169/usrep169649/usrep169649.pdf

Not gonna read 80+ pages from 120 years ago.

Care to summarize?

[taiwan_girl]

I think that the US should get rid of it, but like jolly said, it will probably require some difficulty.

[taiwan_girl]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/litigation-certainty-trumps-call-end-birthright-citizenship-face-mount-rcna162314

“The United States is among the only countries in the world that says even if neither parent is a citizen or even lawfully in the country, their future children are automatic citizens the moment the parents trespass onto our soil,” Trump said

and

Under Trump’s proposal, at least one parent would need to be a citizen or legal resident for a child to receive birthright citizenship.

and

Despite Trump’s pledge, the plan to end birthright citizenship is not specifically mentioned in the 2024 Republican platform document, which includes a chapter titled “Seal the Border and Stop the Migrant Invasion.”

The platform does include language pledging to “prioritize merit-based immigration” and end chain migration, a term used to refer to people who have U.S. citizenship and then use their status to help other family members enter the country.

[jon-nyc]

Chain- based migration for me, not for thee. That is how Melania’s parents got here after all.

Anyway, this would require an amendment to current immigration law. IOW, a willing house and senate.

[Jolly]

Might get it, with all the illegals in the country.

[Mik]

Now might be a good time to push it.

[jon-nyc]

If he agrees to deport Melania’s parents then sure.

[Mik]

Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a huge opportunity for mischief. But strategically now would be a good time.

I’m not big on changing long standing constitutional principles.

[taiwan_girl]

One of the things the article mentioned was birth tourists. It has gotten news in Chinese language news - mainland Chinese mothers to be coming to the US and staying long enough to give birth. They usually go back to China, but their son/daughter is now eligible for a US passport.

There have been some "birth hotels" in California that have been raided, etc.

(I do think something like the above is probably not that big a problem, but it does make good news story)

[George K]

@taiwan_girl said in Birthright Citizenship:

here have been some "birth hotels" in California that have been raided, etc.

I have taken care of more than one undocumented illegal immigrant who came to the US to give birth to a US citizen.

[Axtremus]

What's wrong with birthright citizenship?
What's wrong with "anchor babies"?

[jon-nyc]

@George-K said in Birthright Citizenship:

@taiwan_girl said in Birthright Citizenship:

here have been some "birth hotels" in California that have been raided, etc.

I have taken care of more than one undocumented illegal immigrant who came to the US to give birth to a US citizen.

How did you know they were illegal? Often they’re middle class and eligible for a tourist visa and take a plane here. Crossing on foot through the desert isn’t the most appealing thing for a woman who’s 8 months pregnant.

‘Birth tourism’ is not cheap, after all.

[Jolly]

@jon-nyc said in Birthright Citizenship:

@George-K said in Birthright Citizenship:

@taiwan_girl said in Birthright Citizenship:

here have been some "birth hotels" in California that have been raided, etc.

I have taken care of more than one undocumented illegal immigrant who came to the US to give birth to a US citizen.

How did you know they were illegal? Often they’re middle class and eligible for a tourist visa and take a plane here. Crossing on foot through the desert isn’t the most appealing thing for a woman who’s 8 months pregnant.

‘Birth tourism’ is not cheap, after all.

We had them all the time. At least the migrant kind. The local nursery industry used a lot of illegal immigrant labor. EMTALA decrees you can't turn a woman in labor away. You put her in the hospital and deliver the baby.

As for the tourism bit...If I had a Chinese middle or upper class mother, seven or eight months pregnant, paying cash for her delivery...I'd take a hard look at that.

[jon-nyc]

There’s a distinction between illegal immogrants who come here for a better life and end up having a kid and those who make a trip here specifically to have their kid on US soil and then go home. The latter is a luxury good open to the higher ends of the middle classes and above. I’ve known a few myself.

[Jolly]

I see no difference, as far as citizenship is concerned. Being a U.S. citizen should mean something. With that citizenship comes all rights, privileges and responsibilities of being a citizen.

I see no problem with the proposal of discontinuing the "anchor babies". As to the particulars, I think that's open to discussion.

[blondie]

Do these rich foreign women who travel to birth in the U.S. realize the lifelong IRS tax reporting obligations of the child once the child becomes 18.5 yrs? And how their child’s income, inheritances, can be taxed? Or how expensive and complicated Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship can get from abroad?

[Jolly]

OTOH, if you need a place to run to because of domestic problems, why not the U.S.?

Secondly, a U.S. citizen can marry a foreign national in the U.S. on a fiance visa and then apply for a green card for their spouse.

That's a couple of reasons...

[Axtremus]

@Jolly said in Birthright Citizenship:

I see no difference, as far as citizenship is concerned. Being a U.S. citizen should mean something. With that citizenship comes all rights, privileges and responsibilities of being a citizen.

I see no problem with the proposal of discontinuing the "anchor babies".

What's the problem as long as the "anchor babies" who enjoy all the rights & privileges of citizenship also grow up to fulfill the responsibilities of being citizens?

Heck, why do you care whether one is a natural-born citizen or a naturalized citizen, as long as s/he fulfills the responsibilities of being a citizen?

[Renauda]

@blondie

Or how expensive and complicated Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship can get from abroad?

A former colleague - born in New Jersey to a Finnish father and Canadian mother - finally completed the process last year. Seven and half years and over $10 K USD.

Only resided in the US for the first six months of her life. Her father was temporarily posted there for a year for business when she was born. Home was Helsinki. Moved to Canada from Finland as a full Canadian when she was 21.

She said the process of renunciation was onerous and at time ridiculously intrusive as to personal privacy going back to her childhood.

Last year, my son renounced his birth citizenship - Kazakhstan. A one page form, a photocopy of pages 3 and 4 of his Canadian passport and a bank draft for $50 USD payable to the Embassy in Ottawa. Six weeks later a certificate confirming loss of citizenship arrived by registered mail.