Trump & Abortion

[LuFins Dad]

@Doctor-Phibes said in Trump & Abortion:

@George-K said in Trump & Abortion:

Post Dobbs, how does this work?

SCOTUS said that this is not a federal manner, if I understand correctly. Would a federal law supersede that?

That was the point of my question. Is the Federal government going to require that States permit abortions even if they don't want to? Are they going to prevent other States from doing what they want?

SCOTUS didn’t say this wasn’t necessarily a federal issue, they just said that without there being federal legislation then it must be a state issue.

[taiwan_girl]

I think this issue will prove the President Trump is more of a cult of personality than policy. If President Trump recommends a 16 week abortion schedule, it will be interesting to see how many of the people who are against abortion will nod their heads and say, "Yup, President Trump is correct to recommend this" even though it would allow (as @89th pointed out) about 95% of all current abortions.

[Jolly]

@taiwan_girl said in Trump & Abortion:

I think this issue will prove the President Trump is more of a cult of personality than policy. If President Trump recommends a 16 week abortion schedule, it will be interesting to see how many of the people who are against abortion will nod their heads and say, "Yup, President Trump is correct to recommend this" even though it would allow (as @89th pointed out) about 95% of all current abortions.

Too simple. Most voters are a bit more nuanced than that.

Democrats have been whittling on what they want for years. Take a bite, wait, take a bite ...wash, rinse and continue.

The other side hasn't done that. Maybe it's starting to learn

[jon-nyc]

Nope. Cult.

Principled pro-lifers will stay that way.

[taiwan_girl]

@Jolly said in Trump & Abortion:

@taiwan_girl said in Trump & Abortion:

I think this issue will prove the President Trump is more of a cult of personality than policy. If President Trump recommends a 16 week abortion schedule, it will be interesting to see how many of the people who are against abortion will nod their heads and say, "Yup, President Trump is correct to recommend this" even though it would allow (as @89th pointed out) about 95% of all current abortions.

Too simple. Most voters are a bit more nuanced than that.

Democrats have been whittling on what they want for years. Take a bite, wait, take a bite ...wash, rinse and continue.

The other side hasn't done that. Maybe it's starting to learn

Hypothetic of course, but how do you think most President Trump supporters will respond if he supports a federal 16 week abortion schedule?

[Horace]

I am sure pro lifers are accustomed to compromise when they vote. I don’t see where this cult nonsense has to be deployed.

[Jolly]

@jon-nyc said in Trump & Abortion:

Nope. Cult.

Principled atheistswill stay that way.I

FIFY.

BTW, who would you rather have taking care of your aged mother? An atheist or Christian? In general terms, assuming a similar level of skills? A secular or Christian hospital?

[Jolly]

@taiwan_girl said in Trump & Abortion:

@Jolly said in Trump & Abortion:

@taiwan_girl said in Trump & Abortion:

I think this issue will prove the President Trump is more of a cult of personality than policy. If President Trump recommends a 16 week abortion schedule, it will be interesting to see how many of the people who are against abortion will nod their heads and say, "Yup, President Trump is correct to recommend this" even though it would allow (as @89th pointed out) about 95% of all current abortions.

Too simple. Most voters are a bit more nuanced than that.

Democrats have been whittling on what they want for years. Take a bite, wait, take a bite ...wash, rinse and continue.

The other side hasn't done that. Maybe it's starting to learn

Hypothetic of course, but how do you think most President Trump supporters will respond if he supports a federal 16 week abortion schedule?

I think most will see it for what it is.

[taiwan_girl]

@Jolly said in Trump & Abortion:

@jon-nyc said in Trump & Abortion:

Nope. Cult.

Principled atheistswill stay that way.I

FIFY.

BTW, who would you rather have taking care of your aged mother? An atheist or Christian? In general terms, assuming a similar level of skills? A secular or Christian hospital?

I don't think that Christians (or Buddhists or Muslims or Zoroastrians or whoever) are generally more caring than other people.

Like the rest of the population, there are good and bad in each group. I went to a church and it was very difficult to get out of the parking lot - lots of cars cutting, etc. My friend says, "This seems to prove that Christianity ends in the parking lot". LOL

[Horace]

I hope this doesn’t offend too many people, but IMO Nazis were less caring than other groups.

[Aqua Letifer]

@Horace said in Trump & Abortion:

I hope this doesn’t offend too many people, but IMO Nazis were less caring than other groups.

I see you are a student of history, like the late Norm McDonald.

[Renauda]

@taiwan_girl

I don't think that Christians (or Buddhists or Muslims or Zoroastrians or whoever) are generally more caring than other people.

Strangely enough, I have also met many immensely caring and selflessly altruistic agnostics and non believers in not only the health care profession but in everyday life.

Some people might dispute my claim, but they would be very wrong about the world in which they live.

[Copper]

@Horace said in Trump & Abortion:

I hope this doesn’t offend too many people, but IMO Nazis were less caring than other groups.

Yes, they would have been big fans of abortion.

[LuFins Dad]

@Jolly Louisiana currently has a ban on abortion. Trump’s stance would eliminate the Louisiana ban. It would also override the Texas ban, the Georgia 6 week threshold, and more. Are you good with that?

[Jolly]

@taiwan_girl said in Trump & Abortion:

@Jolly said in Trump & Abortion:

@jon-nyc said in Trump & Abortion:

Nope. Cult.

Principled atheistswill stay that way.I

FIFY.

BTW, who would you rather have taking care of your aged mother? An atheist or Christian? In general terms, assuming a similar level of skills? A secular or Christian hospital?

I don't think that Christians (or Buddhists or Muslims or Zoroastrians or whoever) are generally more caring than other people.

Like the rest of the population, there are good and bad in each group. I went to a church and it was very difficult to get out of the parking lot - lots of cars cutting, etc. My friend says, "This seems to prove that Christianity ends in the parking lot". LOL

Beg to differ. The logical progression of atheistic or totally secular society, must eventually lead to a promotion of euthanasia for the aged or terminally ill. OTOH, Christianity (and to be fair, some other religions) value life immensely.

Give you an example from something my wife and I were talking about this morning...There is a member of our church who has terminal cancer. Over the last few months, there has been a parade of church members through the man's home. Some just drop by to visit, some have helped with food or respite.

His time is now quite short, so somebody from the church is there all day, every day until one of his children come in, sometime in the evening.

And when that day does come, his wake will be held in the sanctuary and he'll be buried facing East, in the church graveyard. Family and friends will be sad, but all will rejoice in knowing that he is in a better place, where pain and suffering are no longer.

If Christianity and church end at the parking lot, you don't have very much of either.

[Jolly]

@LuFins-Dad said in Trump & Abortion:

@Jolly Louisiana currently has a ban on abortion. Trump’s stance would eliminate the Louisiana ban. It would also override the Texas ban, the Georgia 6 week threshold, and more. Are you good with that?

No.

But it beats the sugar out of Biden's position. Biden wants the FDA to release Mifepristone in all states, which in essence is abortion on demand through the first 11 weeks. And if you think women will confine that cut-off to 11 weeks, I'll stand on my head and wiggle my ears.

[LuFins Dad]

I fail to see how that has any impact on whether Trump’s policy is a winner or can pass. My guess is that it can’t and won’t. It might sound good to a few uncommitted voters, but in essence it’s a nonstarter.

Reps in California and NY would not dare to vote for restrictions. First, they would need to vote against it just because Trump proposed it. Second, it would be political suicide for them.

Now, even if the Republicans manage to control both houses after the election, it goes nowhere. Reps in LA (including Speaker Johnson), Texas, Arkansas, Alabama, etc… aren’t likely to vote for a policy position that allows abortion beyond what their state laws allow. The position is fluff.

The other thing that is concerning is that if a law gets passed by one party, it’s just going to get rescinded the next time the other party gets power. It’s going to just keep ping ponging, and it’s too important an issue for that.