No more IVF in Alabama?

[George K]

Nikki: "Frozen embryos are babies."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/nikki-haley-sides-alabama-supreme-court-ivf-ruling-embryos-are-babies-rcna139819

[Doctor Phibes]

So they'd rather save embryos than have people raise actual children?

I'm not sure that's really being pro-life.

[Copper]

@Doctor-Phibes said in No more IVF in Alabama?:

So they'd rather save embryos than have people raise actual children?

Typical MAGA question.

[Doctor Phibes]

@Copper said in No more IVF in Alabama?:

@Doctor-Phibes said in No more IVF in Alabama?:

So they'd rather save embryos than have people raise actual children?

Typical MAGA question.

Well, your guy has suggested that Alabama find an immediate solution that protects IVF.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68388232

I don't say this very often, but good for him.

[89th]

I haven’t read the details but why are IVF treatments paused if they’re worried about the destruction of the embryo? IVF is literally using the embryo, not destroying it.

[Axtremus]

@89th said in No more IVF in Alabama?:

I haven’t read the details but why are IVF treatments paused if they’re worried about the destruction of the embryo? IVF is literally using the embryo, not destroying it.

Because there is a significant chance of one egg failing to be fertilized or failing to be implanted, and the time, money, pain, and effort to even get to the point of taking the egg out of the woman is significant, standard practice is to attempt IVF with multiple eggs — meaning you will create multiple embryos in the process, but only implant a few, and freeze the ones not chosen for implantation (just in case you have to come back for a second try later). The frozen ones will eventually need to be disposed of, an act now deemed illegal in Alabama, and that’s why IVF clinics chose to pause their practice.

[George K]

The governor is working with the legislature to see what steps can be taken to avoid this ruling.

It would probably involve repealing the law.

[Renauda]

@Doctor-Phibes said in No more IVF in Alabama?:

@Copper said in No more IVF in Alabama?:

@Doctor-Phibes said in No more IVF in Alabama?:

So they'd rather save embryos than have people raise actual children?

Typical MAGA question.

Well, your guy has suggested that Alabama find an immediate solution that protects IVF.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68388232

I don't say this very often, but good for him.

Yes, give credit where credit is due; Trump is quite right on this.

[Axtremus]

Not just Trump, many Senate Republicans are also rushing to express support for IVF.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/02/23/ivf-restrictions-republicans-election/

Even the NRSC tells Senate candidates to support IVF.

“When responding to the Alabama Supreme Court ruling, it is imperative that our candidates align with the public’s overwhelming support for IVF and fertility treatments,” NRSC Executive Director Jason Thielman wrote in a memo to “Senate Candidates” dated Friday ...

[George K]

I haven't taken a deep dive into this, but my superficial impression is that the court simply interpreted existing law. The court's job is not to approve or disapprove of the law - that's a legislative job. They said, "This is what it says." The implication being "Deal with it."

Apparently, the blowback has been so powerful, that sane minds are dealing with it.

Good for them.

[George K]

Just came across the National Review article:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/02/what-the-alabama-ivf-ruling-was-actually-about/

[Copper]

@89th said in No more IVF in Alabama?:

IVF is literally using the embryo, not destroying it.

They destroy a lot of embryos.

I spent enough funding IVF in it's early stages, 35+ years ago, that sometimes I think my name should have been over the door.

Stopping IVF to protect embryos is consistent with the end of Roe. Unexpected, maybe, but consistent.

[89th]

I should clarify, I meant why not proceed with IVF transfers with existing embryos? But I get why practices are pausing until there is legal clarity. My wife and I went through many many many rounds of IVF btw, so I’m familiar with the process. It’s grueling.

[Doctor Phibes]

It's not just the left who have people so blinded by virtue that they can't see what's right

[George K]

@Doctor-Phibes said in No more IVF in Alabama?:

It's not just the left who have people so blinded by virtue that they can't see what's right

Well put.

[Copper]

@Doctor-Phibes said in No more IVF in Alabama?:

they can't see what's right

Did you know that people on one side of the abortion debate don't think people on the other side are right?

So, using the phrase "what's right" might be considered ambiguous.

[George K]

The background of the case:

NRO's interpretation:

Last, if you spent any time this week casually following the Alabama IVF case, where a court ruled that frozen embryos are children under state law, you’ll probably be shocked to learn the insane details of what prompted such an opinion. The case heard by the judge involved an IVF-capable facility that failed to protect human embryos from a rogue patient who wandered into the room, accessed the freezer, and then accidentally dropped the embryos on the ground, killing them all. The case sought to answer the question: If an organization’s negligence allows for a random actor to kill human embryos, do the parents of said embryos have standing to sue the organization?

At CNN, a morning anchor alleged that a doctor had accidentally dropped a dish.

[Axtremus]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2024/02/25/cancer-ivf-alabama-embryos/

Cancer patients getting worried as well ... since cancer and some of its treatments may adversely impact fertility, some cancer patients turn to freezing their embryos before their cancer gets worse or before they undergo certain aggressive treatments as a way to preserve the option to reproduce later. This may not be a viable option in Alabama anymore due to legal risks.

[89th]

No idea how a patient could access frozen embryos. In my experience they are very well protected, both in terms of access (not just dropping, but mixing up parent affiliations) as well as redundant systems/power to make sure they don't thaw if the power goes out.

[Axtremus]

Maybe Alabamans can drop unwanted frozen embryos at fire stations without legal repercussions …

https://www.al.com/news/2023/06/new-alabama-law-authorizes-safe-haven-boxes-to-surrender-infants-at-fire-stations.html

Like many other states, Alabama has a law that allow infants to be surrendered at fire stations without being charged of abandonment. As a legal theory, maybe unwanted frozen embryos can be similarly surrendered?