Trump by the numbers
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Trump by the numbers:
I don't think it suddenly becomes important just because they swear an oath. Communication is always vital.
Lying about what you've done is important. But also, undermining your own team exhibits horrible leadership skills. And if you've got horrible leadership skills....well, you're a horrible leader.
You can't do what he's done in life and be a horrible leader.
Now, exhibiting hair-pulling, pinball communication? Guilty. Absolutely guilty.
@Jolly said in Trump by the numbers:
You can't do what he's done in life and be a horrible leader.
Well, admittedly that's subjective. Clearly he royally pissed off a number of his direct reports to the point where they apparently became mortal enemies.
I was only joking
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The irony of his covid response is that the only tangible achievement, effectively fast-tracking the vaccine, is seen as toxic by much of his own base.
His comms were bad and the guidance by the CDC wasn't great either. You can say the CDC wasn't his fault, but the buck stops with him. It's his agency, he's the chief executive.
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@Jolly said in Trump by the numbers:
You can't do what he's done in life and be a horrible leader.
Well, admittedly that's subjective. Clearly he royally pissed off a number of his direct reports to the point where they apparently became mortal enemies.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Trump by the numbers:
@Jolly said in Trump by the numbers:
You can't do what he's done in life and be a horrible leader.
Well, admittedly that's subjective. Clearly he royally pissed off a number of his direct reports to the point where they apparently became mortal enemies.
I think you have to factor in that there has never been a president so embattled even before he took office.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Trump by the numbers:
@Jolly said in Trump by the numbers:
You can't do what he's done in life and be a horrible leader.
Well, admittedly that's subjective. Clearly he royally pissed off a number of his direct reports to the point where they apparently became mortal enemies.
I think you have to factor in that there has never been a president so embattled even before he took office.
@Mik said in Trump by the numbers:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Trump by the numbers:
@Jolly said in Trump by the numbers:
You can't do what he's done in life and be a horrible leader.
Well, admittedly that's subjective. Clearly he royally pissed off a number of his direct reports to the point where they apparently became mortal enemies.
I think you have to factor in that there has never been a president so embattled even before he took office.
Agreed - but being embattled, and battling everything and everyone was his deliberate posture. Now if that didn't produce good results, it was the wrong thing to do.
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What choice did he have? Surrender? Resign?
Look, I don't care for the guy either and do not want him back in the WH. But there has never been anything like the all out assault on a presidency that we saw in 2016-2021.
"The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil
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What choice did he have? Surrender? Resign?
Look, I don't care for the guy either and do not want him back in the WH. But there has never been anything like the all out assault on a presidency that we saw in 2016-2021.
@Mik said in Trump by the numbers:
What choice did he have? Surrender? Resign?
Look, I don't care for the guy either and do not want him back in the WH. But there has never been anything like the all out assault on a presidency that we saw in 2016-2021.
No - my comment is more that he shouldn't get cut any slack for being embattled. He explicitly sets out to tear down "the system". It's not surprising that "the system" lashed out at him. You can't be a combative asshole then complain that you're being treated with hostility.
I'm not saying that anyone was right or wrong here - just saying that if that's the management style you're going to use, you better personally bring the goods yourself. Asshole + competent can work. Asshole + incompetent is a disaster.
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@89th said in Trump by the numbers:
his fumbling early on of COVID
Can you be more specific? Don't tell me what he said, tell me what he did that was a fumble.
@George-K said in Trump by the numbers:
@89th said in Trump by the numbers:
his fumbling early on of COVID
Can you be more specific? Don't tell me what he said, tell me what he did that was a fumble.
14 Days to Flatten the Curve
Sending every single man, woman, & child $600 three different times.
Signing a bill that would forgive employers massive loans so long as they spent a certain amount on payroll without ANY other qualifiers.
Expanding unemployment indefinitely
Putting a freeze on foreclosures
Allowing Fauci to keep his job.
Listened to the wrong advisors
Was responsible for the most egregious government infringement on human rights in the history of this country.
And was a preening jackass while doing all of this.
The Brad
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I don't think he fumbled it worse than pretty much the rest of the world which did about what we did. Think back to the early days. Fear gripped the world, and no one really knew anything.
@Mik said in Trump by the numbers:
I don't think he fumbled it worse than pretty much the rest of the world which did about what we did. Think back to the early days. Fear gripped the world, and no one really knew anything.
Yeah. Then a few leaders (very few) shook their heads and said WTF are we doing here? This is when we have to be most true to our principles, and reversed course. While Donald just asked for another 2 weeks to flatten the curve and another trillion or so of free money…
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@Mik said in Trump by the numbers:
What choice did he have? Surrender? Resign?
Look, I don't care for the guy either and do not want him back in the WH. But there has never been anything like the all out assault on a presidency that we saw in 2016-2021.
No - my comment is more that he shouldn't get cut any slack for being embattled. He explicitly sets out to tear down "the system". It's not surprising that "the system" lashed out at him. You can't be a combative asshole then complain that you're being treated with hostility.
I'm not saying that anyone was right or wrong here - just saying that if that's the management style you're going to use, you better personally bring the goods yourself. Asshole + competent can work. Asshole + incompetent is a disaster.
@xenon said in Trump by the numbers:
@Mik said in Trump by the numbers:
What choice did he have? Surrender? Resign?
Look, I don't care for the guy either and do not want him back in the WH. But there has never been anything like the all out assault on a presidency that we saw in 2016-2021.
No - my comment is more that he shouldn't get cut any slack for being embattled. He explicitly sets out to tear down "the system". It's not surprising that "the system" lashed out at him. You can't be a combative asshole then complain that you're being treated with hostility.
I'm not saying that anyone was right or wrong here - just saying that if that's the management style you're going to use, you better personally bring the goods yourself. Asshole + competent can work. Asshole + incompetent is a disaster.
Fair enough.
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What choice did he have? Surrender? Resign?
Look, I don't care for the guy either and do not want him back in the WH. But there has never been anything like the all out assault on a presidency that we saw in 2016-2021.
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The irony of his covid response is that the only tangible achievement, effectively fast-tracking the vaccine, is seen as toxic by much of his own base.
His comms were bad and the guidance by the CDC wasn't great either. You can say the CDC wasn't his fault, but the buck stops with him. It's his agency, he's the chief executive.
@xenon said in Trump by the numbers:
The irony of his covid response is that the only tangible achievement, effectively fast-tracking the vaccine, is seen as toxic by much of his own base.
His comms were bad and the guidance by the CDC wasn't great either. You can say the CDC wasn't his fault, but the buck stops with him. It's his agency, he's the chief executive.
Voice Of Experience: NEVER assume non-medical people understand medical terms, terminology, treatments or procedures. NEVER.
They try. Even Presidents, with the best of briefings. But they fall short continually and consistently.
Secondly, the CDC addressed this as a purely public health issue. They screwed up by the numbers, in some aspects. Public Health is taxed with preserving every life. A pandemic is a different type of critter than a small outbreak. PH did not take into account economic factors, fear and anxiety factors or long term effects, such as taking the least COVID affected group (schoolchildren) and possibly screwing up their learning curve for years, possibly even life.
I hope we learned a few lessons from this pandemic...
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@George-K said in Trump by the numbers:
@89th said in Trump by the numbers:
his fumbling early on of COVID
Can you be more specific? Don't tell me what he said, tell me what he did that was a fumble.
14 Days to Flatten the Curve
Sending every single man, woman, & child $600 three different times.
Signing a bill that would forgive employers massive loans so long as they spent a certain amount on payroll without ANY other qualifiers.
Expanding unemployment indefinitely
Putting a freeze on foreclosures
Allowing Fauci to keep his job.
Listened to the wrong advisors
Was responsible for the most egregious government infringement on human rights in the history of this country.
And was a preening jackass while doing all of this.
@LuFins-Dad said in Trump by the numbers:
Can you be more specific? Don't tell me what he said, tell me what he did that was a fumble.
14 Days to Flatten the Curve
In March 2020 that's what his advisors told him would reduce strain on resources.
Sending every single man, woman, & child $600 three different times.
A (stupid) financial move - having nothing to do with the pandemic, per se.
Signing a bill that would forgive employers massive loans so long as they spent a certain amount on payroll without ANY other qualifiers.
A (stupid) financial move - having nothing to do with the pandemic, per se.
Expanding unemployment indefinitely
A (stupid) financial move - having nothing to do with the pandemic, per se.
Putting a freeze on foreclosures
A (stupid) financial move - having nothing to do with the pandemic, per se.
Allowing Fauci to keep his job.
In March 2020, would you have known better? If not, when, June? 2021?
Listened to the wrong advisors
In March 2020, would you have known better? If not, when, June? 2021?
Was responsible for the most egregious government infringement on human rights in the history of this country.
Agreed.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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- I don't think he fumbled COVID.
- At least a third of the country thinks he got rooked in the election.
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@89th said in Trump by the numbers:
his fumbling early on of COVID
Can you be more specific? Don't tell me what he said, tell me what he did that was a fumble.
@George-K said in Trump by the numbers:
@89th said in Trump by the numbers:
his fumbling early on of COVID
Can you be more specific? Don't tell me what he said, tell me what he did that was a fumble.
We’ve had this discussion a few times already. Suffice to say the leader of the country downplaying the virus early on likely led to many unnecessary deaths, especially among the elderly and obese. Meanwhile a million+ citizens died, mass morgues were created in 18 wheelers, and sales of bleach went up
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@Jolly said in Trump by the numbers:
- At least a third of the country thinks he got rooked in the election.
Gullibility is not a good retort
@89th said in Trump by the numbers:
@Jolly said in Trump by the numbers:
- At least a third of the country thinks he got rooked in the election.
Gullibility is not a good retort
Retort? Fact, jack.
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@George-K said in Trump by the numbers:
@89th said in Trump by the numbers:
his fumbling early on of COVID
Can you be more specific? Don't tell me what he said, tell me what he did that was a fumble.
We’ve had this discussion a few times already. Suffice to say the leader of the country downplaying the virus early on likely led to many unnecessary deaths, especially among the elderly and obese. Meanwhile a million+ citizens died, mass morgues were created in 18 wheelers, and sales of bleach went up
@89th said in Trump by the numbers:
@George-K said in Trump by the numbers:
@89th said in Trump by the numbers:
his fumbling early on of COVID
Can you be more specific? Don't tell me what he said, tell me what he did that was a fumble.
We’ve had this discussion a few times already. Suffice to say the leader of the country downplaying the virus early on likely led to many unnecessary deaths, especially among the elderly and obese. Meanwhile a million+ citizens died, mass morgues were created in 18 wheelers, and sales of bleach went up
There was an epidemiologist at the very beginning of the whole thing that essentially said that it didn’t much matter, X number of people would die. It might happen quickly or it might happen spread out over 2. He was prettY much spot on.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Trump by the numbers:
Can you be more specific? Don't tell me what he said, tell me what he did that was a fumble.
14 Days to Flatten the Curve
In March 2020 that's what his advisors told him would reduce strain on resources.
Sending every single man, woman, & child $600 three different times.
A (stupid) financial move - having nothing to do with the pandemic, per se.
Signing a bill that would forgive employers massive loans so long as they spent a certain amount on payroll without ANY other qualifiers.
A (stupid) financial move - having nothing to do with the pandemic, per se.
Expanding unemployment indefinitely
A (stupid) financial move - having nothing to do with the pandemic, per se.
Putting a freeze on foreclosures
A (stupid) financial move - having nothing to do with the pandemic, per se.
Allowing Fauci to keep his job.
In March 2020, would you have known better? If not, when, June? 2021?
Listened to the wrong advisors
In March 2020, would you have known better? If not, when, June? 2021?
Was responsible for the most egregious government infringement on human rights in the history of this country.
Agreed.
@George-K said in Trump by the numbers:
@LuFins-Dad said in Trump by the numbers:
Can you be more specific? Don't tell me what he said, tell me what he did that was a fumble.
14 Days to Flatten the Curve
In March 2020 that's what his advisors told him would reduce strain on resources.
Sending every single man, woman, & child $600 three different times.
A (stupid) financial move - having nothing to do with the pandemic, per se.
Signing a bill that would forgive employers massive loans so long as they spent a certain amount on payroll without ANY other qualifiers.
A (stupid) financial move - having nothing to do with the pandemic, per se.
Expanding unemployment indefinitely
A (stupid) financial move - having nothing to do with the pandemic, per se.
Putting a freeze on foreclosures
A (stupid) financial move - having nothing to do with the pandemic, per se.
Allowing Fauci to keep his job.
In March 2020, would you have known better? If not, when, June? 2021?
Listened to the wrong advisors
In March 2020, would you have known better? If not, when, June? 2021?
Was responsible for the most egregious government infringement on human rights in the history of this country.
Agreed.
Those stupid financial moves were the government’s response to the Pandemic. That was how they attempted to handle it.
As for the advisors, by April he should have had some dissenters among his advisors, yes. Especially when there were some highly regarded and well known dissenters out there. Fauci was already flip flopping about masks and was also obviously covering the lab leak theory by that point.
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Speaking of "stopping the spread"...Any medical person with two brain cells to rub together knew better than that. We weren't going to stop the virus. The purpose behind that campaign was to buy time. To slow the spread down.
Multiple reasons:
- We've only got so many beds and so many people to staff them.
- We were desperately hunting for treatments that would work.
- Viruses gotta virus. Given time, most viruses become more infectious, but less lethal.
