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The New Coffee Room

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  2. General Discussion
  3. Do we have free will?

Do we have free will?

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  • MikM Offline
    MikM Offline
    Mik
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Educated beyond sensibility.

    https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2023/12/30/smr-do-people-not-have-free-will.cnn

    "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

    1 Reply Last reply
    • HoraceH Offline
      HoraceH Offline
      Horace
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      There do not seem to be any socially constructive conclusions that fall out of the free will vs determinism debate. Sapolsky helpfully provided a few destructive ones, like how personal responsibility is meaningless. The subject is the ultimate academic wankery, except it can actually have negative consequences for anybody who takes it seriously.

      Education is extremely important.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • Aqua LetiferA Offline
        Aqua LetiferA Offline
        Aqua Letifer
        wrote on last edited by Aqua Letifer
        #3

        Since that's insane, here's a similar idea I've been kicking around for awhile:

        I could pick up a glass of OJ or not if I wanted to right now. I could go for a drive or not. I could write something down with the pencil beside me.

        But how inevitable was it that that pencil is shaped the way it is? That cars have 4 wheels instead of 5 or 3?

        Very generally speaking, and yes the specific examples don't fit the curve perfectly, it seems to be that the more macro something is, the more inevitable its details were.

        Please love yourself.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nyc
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Sam Harris had made the most convincing arguments about lack of free will, much better than sapolsky. Also there’s really no need to make the leap from no free will to not having variable outcomes based on behavior (eg corner offices and jails).

          I read an earlier book by Sapolsky about human and primate behavior which was utterly fascinating.

          Thank you for your attention to this matter.

          HoraceH KlausK 2 Replies Last reply
          • JollyJ Offline
            JollyJ Offline
            Jolly
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            TULIP.

            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

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            • CopperC Offline
              CopperC Offline
              Copper
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Free will looses meaning without out the ability to pursue the will.

              HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                Sam Harris had made the most convincing arguments about lack of free will, much better than sapolsky. Also there’s really no need to make the leap from no free will to not having variable outcomes based on behavior (eg corner offices and jails).

                I read an earlier book by Sapolsky about human and primate behavior which was utterly fascinating.

                HoraceH Offline
                HoraceH Offline
                Horace
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                @jon-nyc said in Do we have free will?:

                Also there’s really no need to make the leap from no free will to not having variable outcomes based on behavior (eg corner offices and jails).

                He doesn’t land on that conclusion, he only brushes past it in his philosophical meanderings.

                Education is extremely important.

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                • CopperC Copper

                  Free will looses meaning without out the ability to pursue the will.

                  HoraceH Offline
                  HoraceH Offline
                  Horace
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  @Copper said in Do we have free will?:

                  Free will looses meaning without out the ability to pursue the will.

                  Anna Nicole Smith pursued the will.

                  Education is extremely important.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                    Sam Harris had made the most convincing arguments about lack of free will, much better than sapolsky. Also there’s really no need to make the leap from no free will to not having variable outcomes based on behavior (eg corner offices and jails).

                    I read an earlier book by Sapolsky about human and primate behavior which was utterly fascinating.

                    KlausK Offline
                    KlausK Offline
                    Klaus
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @jon-nyc said in Do we have free will?:

                    Sam Harris had made the most convincing arguments about lack of free will, much better than sapolsky. Also there’s really no need to make the leap from no free will to not having variable outcomes based on behavior (eg corner offices and jails).

                    I read an earlier book by Sapolsky about human and primate behavior which was utterly fascinating.

                    I'm reading "Behave" right now. He's such a good writer.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Weird coincidence!

                      Thank you for your attention to this matter.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • KlausK Offline
                        KlausK Offline
                        Klaus
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        I think of free will as a point of view, as a way to view the world. It's not a statement that is true or false.

                        JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                        • KlausK Klaus

                          I think of free will as a point of view, as a way to view the world. It's not a statement that is true or false.

                          JollyJ Offline
                          JollyJ Offline
                          Jolly
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          @Klaus said in Do we have free will?:

                          I think of free will as a point of view, as a way to view the world. It's not a statement that is true or false.

                          It's free will or not, depending upon your current plane in the Multiverse.

                          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • Doctor PhibesD Online
                            Doctor PhibesD Online
                            Doctor Phibes
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            I chose not to post in this thread

                            I was only joking

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • LuFins DadL Offline
                              LuFins DadL Offline
                              LuFins Dad
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              What about Free Wifi? Does that exist?

                              The Brad

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