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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Shooting in Lewiston ME

Shooting in Lewiston ME

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  • JollyJ Offline
    JollyJ Offline
    Jolly
    wrote on last edited by
    #35

    It's something in the culture. Not the gun culture, the culture at large. There are other countries that have a lot of firearms, but have very few mass shooting events (if any).

    Aqua will argue the point, but the army changed from bullseye targets to human silhouette targets, to train soldiers to shoot people. It worked. If that works, then why not first-person shooter games?

    And what has changed in our culture to promote mass shootings? Until the Bell Tower event, I'm hard pressed to recall any mass shootings in the U.S.

    Lastly, our approach to mental health has to change. Has to.

    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

    1 Reply Last reply
    • MikM Offline
      MikM Offline
      Mik
      wrote on last edited by
      #36

      Every time you turn on the TV you see people solving problems with firearms. A constant diet of that simply has to wire us differently.

      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

      Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
      • MikM Mik

        Every time you turn on the TV you see people solving problems with firearms. A constant diet of that simply has to wire us differently.

        Aqua LetiferA Offline
        Aqua LetiferA Offline
        Aqua Letifer
        wrote on last edited by
        #37

        @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

        Every time you turn on the TV you see people solving problems with firearms. A constant diet of that simply has to wire us differently.

        They did this test awhile back: they took American college kids in upstate New York, and Canadian college kids in Toronto. Had them both fill out a fairly lengthy questionnaire testing what they thought of their age group in the opposite country.

        Then they had the kids play Call of Duty against one another for an afternoon. Then they retook the questionnaire.

        Overwhelmingly, opinions became much more favorable because understanding increased.

        Video games can absolutely feed bad behaviors, but because those exact same games can feed good behaviors, too, I don't buy that it's a boogeyman.

        Please love yourself.

        George KG MikM 2 Replies Last reply
        • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

          @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

          Every time you turn on the TV you see people solving problems with firearms. A constant diet of that simply has to wire us differently.

          They did this test awhile back: they took American college kids in upstate New York, and Canadian college kids in Toronto. Had them both fill out a fairly lengthy questionnaire testing what they thought of their age group in the opposite country.

          Then they had the kids play Call of Duty against one another for an afternoon. Then they retook the questionnaire.

          Overwhelmingly, opinions became much more favorable because understanding increased.

          Video games can absolutely feed bad behaviors, but because those exact same games can feed good behaviors, too, I don't buy that it's a boogeyman.

          George KG Offline
          George KG Offline
          George K
          wrote on last edited by
          #38

          @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

          American college kids in upstate New York, and Canadian college kids in Toronto

          I wonder why they chose upstate New York.

          Had they chosen Chicago, NYC or another city, would the results have been different?

          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

          Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
          • George KG George K

            @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

            American college kids in upstate New York, and Canadian college kids in Toronto

            I wonder why they chose upstate New York.

            Had they chosen Chicago, NYC or another city, would the results have been different?

            Aqua LetiferA Offline
            Aqua LetiferA Offline
            Aqua Letifer
            wrote on last edited by
            #39

            @George-K said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

            @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

            American college kids in upstate New York, and Canadian college kids in Toronto

            I wonder why they chose upstate New York.

            Had they chosen Chicago, NYC or another city, would the results have been different?

            Proximity to one another was important for the study. They wanted to start off with kids who had a mutual unfavorable opinion of each other. Problem was, students in other states had very little opinion on Toronto.

            Please love yourself.

            George KG 1 Reply Last reply
            • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

              @George-K said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

              @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

              American college kids in upstate New York, and Canadian college kids in Toronto

              I wonder why they chose upstate New York.

              Had they chosen Chicago, NYC or another city, would the results have been different?

              Proximity to one another was important for the study. They wanted to start off with kids who had a mutual unfavorable opinion of each other. Problem was, students in other states had very little opinion on Toronto.

              George KG Offline
              George KG Offline
              George K
              wrote on last edited by
              #40

              @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

              students in other states had very little opinion on Toronto

              And rightly so...

              Sorry for the snark - interesting. Very interesting.

              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

              Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
              • George KG George K

                @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                students in other states had very little opinion on Toronto

                And rightly so...

                Sorry for the snark - interesting. Very interesting.

                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                Aqua LetiferA Offline
                Aqua Letifer
                wrote on last edited by
                #41

                @George-K said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                students in other states had very little opinion on Toronto

                And rightly so...

                Sorry for the snark - interesting. Very interesting.

                They tested the type of game, too. They tried the same experiment with 1v1, co-op and last man standing. I forget what the results were, broken down that way, except that it wasn't exactly what was expected.

                Please love yourself.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                  @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                  Every time you turn on the TV you see people solving problems with firearms. A constant diet of that simply has to wire us differently.

                  They did this test awhile back: they took American college kids in upstate New York, and Canadian college kids in Toronto. Had them both fill out a fairly lengthy questionnaire testing what they thought of their age group in the opposite country.

                  Then they had the kids play Call of Duty against one another for an afternoon. Then they retook the questionnaire.

                  Overwhelmingly, opinions became much more favorable because understanding increased.

                  Video games can absolutely feed bad behaviors, but because those exact same games can feed good behaviors, too, I don't buy that it's a boogeyman.

                  MikM Offline
                  MikM Offline
                  Mik
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #42

                  @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                  @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                  Every time you turn on the TV you see people solving problems with firearms. A constant diet of that simply has to wire us differently.

                  They did this test awhile back: they took American college kids in upstate New York, and Canadian college kids in Toronto. Had them both fill out a fairly lengthy questionnaire testing what they thought of their age group in the opposite country.

                  Then they had the kids play Call of Duty against one another for an afternoon. Then they retook the questionnaire.

                  Overwhelmingly, opinions became much more favorable because understanding increased.

                  Video games can absolutely feed bad behaviors, but because those exact same games can feed good behaviors, too, I don't buy that it's a boogeyman.

                  All of which has exactly nothing to do with what I posted. I don't think it's even questionable that positive interaction breeds more positive feelings.

                  “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                  Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                  • MikM Mik

                    @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                    @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                    Every time you turn on the TV you see people solving problems with firearms. A constant diet of that simply has to wire us differently.

                    They did this test awhile back: they took American college kids in upstate New York, and Canadian college kids in Toronto. Had them both fill out a fairly lengthy questionnaire testing what they thought of their age group in the opposite country.

                    Then they had the kids play Call of Duty against one another for an afternoon. Then they retook the questionnaire.

                    Overwhelmingly, opinions became much more favorable because understanding increased.

                    Video games can absolutely feed bad behaviors, but because those exact same games can feed good behaviors, too, I don't buy that it's a boogeyman.

                    All of which has exactly nothing to do with what I posted. I don't think it's even questionable that positive interaction breeds more positive feelings.

                    Aqua LetiferA Offline
                    Aqua LetiferA Offline
                    Aqua Letifer
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #43

                    @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                    @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                    @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                    Every time you turn on the TV you see people solving problems with firearms. A constant diet of that simply has to wire us differently.

                    They did this test awhile back: they took American college kids in upstate New York, and Canadian college kids in Toronto. Had them both fill out a fairly lengthy questionnaire testing what they thought of their age group in the opposite country.

                    Then they had the kids play Call of Duty against one another for an afternoon. Then they retook the questionnaire.

                    Overwhelmingly, opinions became much more favorable because understanding increased.

                    Video games can absolutely feed bad behaviors, but because those exact same games can feed good behaviors, too, I don't buy that it's a boogeyman.

                    All of which has exactly nothing to do with what I posted. I don't think it's even questionable that positive interaction breeds more positive feelings.

                    It has everything to do with what you posted.

                    There's interaction in video games. Which makes diagnosing their effects very complicated.

                    There's no interaction with TV.

                    Please love yourself.

                    JollyJ MikM 2 Replies Last reply
                    • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                      @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                      @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                      @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                      Every time you turn on the TV you see people solving problems with firearms. A constant diet of that simply has to wire us differently.

                      They did this test awhile back: they took American college kids in upstate New York, and Canadian college kids in Toronto. Had them both fill out a fairly lengthy questionnaire testing what they thought of their age group in the opposite country.

                      Then they had the kids play Call of Duty against one another for an afternoon. Then they retook the questionnaire.

                      Overwhelmingly, opinions became much more favorable because understanding increased.

                      Video games can absolutely feed bad behaviors, but because those exact same games can feed good behaviors, too, I don't buy that it's a boogeyman.

                      All of which has exactly nothing to do with what I posted. I don't think it's even questionable that positive interaction breeds more positive feelings.

                      It has everything to do with what you posted.

                      There's interaction in video games. Which makes diagnosing their effects very complicated.

                      There's no interaction with TV.

                      JollyJ Offline
                      JollyJ Offline
                      Jolly
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #44

                      @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                      @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                      @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                      @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                      Every time you turn on the TV you see people solving problems with firearms. A constant diet of that simply has to wire us differently.

                      They did this test awhile back: they took American college kids in upstate New York, and Canadian college kids in Toronto. Had them both fill out a fairly lengthy questionnaire testing what they thought of their age group in the opposite country.

                      Then they had the kids play Call of Duty against one another for an afternoon. Then they retook the questionnaire.

                      Overwhelmingly, opinions became much more favorable because understanding increased.

                      Video games can absolutely feed bad behaviors, but because those exact same games can feed good behaviors, too, I don't buy that it's a boogeyman.

                      All of which has exactly nothing to do with what I posted. I don't think it's even questionable that positive interaction breeds more positive feelings.

                      It has everything to do with what you posted.

                      There's interaction in video games. Which makes diagnosing their effects very complicated.

                      There's no interaction with TV.

                      True, but...

                      I like TCM. One of the reasons are the host's presentations before and after a movie, particularly a movie that has had a lasting effect on the public and the business. Plus, their restorations of old movies are top notch.

                      Last night, I was catching the Friday Night Double Feature for October (all spooky movies on Friday night this month). The movies were the 1931's Frankenstein and 1936's Bride of Frankenstein. In 1931, Universal inserted a disclaimer at the beginning of the movie, warning those with sensitive dispositions that this might not be the movie for them and if they wished to leave the theater, now was the time, before the start of the movie.

                      Compared to what goes on in a horror film of today, Frankenstein qualified as children's programming. Yet, when released, it was straight up Gothic Horror.

                      Does our current apathy or acceptance for blood and gore in media help fuel some of this current mental instability?

                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                      Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                      • Aqua LetiferA Aqua Letifer

                        @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                        @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                        Every time you turn on the TV you see people solving problems with firearms. A constant diet of that simply has to wire us differently.

                        They did this test awhile back: they took American college kids in upstate New York, and Canadian college kids in Toronto. Had them both fill out a fairly lengthy questionnaire testing what they thought of their age group in the opposite country.

                        Then they had the kids play Call of Duty against one another for an afternoon. Then they retook the questionnaire.

                        Overwhelmingly, opinions became much more favorable because understanding increased.

                        Video games can absolutely feed bad behaviors, but because those exact same games can feed good behaviors, too, I don't buy that it's a boogeyman.

                        All of which has exactly nothing to do with what I posted. I don't think it's even questionable that positive interaction breeds more positive feelings.

                        It has everything to do with what you posted.

                        There's interaction in video games. Which makes diagnosing their effects very complicated.

                        There's no interaction with TV.

                        MikM Offline
                        MikM Offline
                        Mik
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #45

                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                        @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                        @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                        Every time you turn on the TV you see people solving problems with firearms. A constant diet of that simply has to wire us differently.

                        They did this test awhile back: they took American college kids in upstate New York, and Canadian college kids in Toronto. Had them both fill out a fairly lengthy questionnaire testing what they thought of their age group in the opposite country.

                        Then they had the kids play Call of Duty against one another for an afternoon. Then they retook the questionnaire.

                        Overwhelmingly, opinions became much more favorable because understanding increased.

                        Video games can absolutely feed bad behaviors, but because those exact same games can feed good behaviors, too, I don't buy that it's a boogeyman.

                        All of which has exactly nothing to do with what I posted. I don't think it's even questionable that positive interaction breeds more positive feelings.

                        It has everything to do with what you posted.

                        There's interaction in video games. Which makes diagnosing their effects very complicated.

                        There's no interaction with TV.

                        I said nothing about video games. It was all about TV.

                        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                        Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                        • MikM Mik

                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                          @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                          @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                          Every time you turn on the TV you see people solving problems with firearms. A constant diet of that simply has to wire us differently.

                          They did this test awhile back: they took American college kids in upstate New York, and Canadian college kids in Toronto. Had them both fill out a fairly lengthy questionnaire testing what they thought of their age group in the opposite country.

                          Then they had the kids play Call of Duty against one another for an afternoon. Then they retook the questionnaire.

                          Overwhelmingly, opinions became much more favorable because understanding increased.

                          Video games can absolutely feed bad behaviors, but because those exact same games can feed good behaviors, too, I don't buy that it's a boogeyman.

                          All of which has exactly nothing to do with what I posted. I don't think it's even questionable that positive interaction breeds more positive feelings.

                          It has everything to do with what you posted.

                          There's interaction in video games. Which makes diagnosing their effects very complicated.

                          There's no interaction with TV.

                          I said nothing about video games. It was all about TV.

                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                          Aqua LetiferA Offline
                          Aqua Letifer
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #46

                          @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                          @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                          @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                          @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                          Every time you turn on the TV you see people solving problems with firearms. A constant diet of that simply has to wire us differently.

                          They did this test awhile back: they took American college kids in upstate New York, and Canadian college kids in Toronto. Had them both fill out a fairly lengthy questionnaire testing what they thought of their age group in the opposite country.

                          Then they had the kids play Call of Duty against one another for an afternoon. Then they retook the questionnaire.

                          Overwhelmingly, opinions became much more favorable because understanding increased.

                          Video games can absolutely feed bad behaviors, but because those exact same games can feed good behaviors, too, I don't buy that it's a boogeyman.

                          All of which has exactly nothing to do with what I posted. I don't think it's even questionable that positive interaction breeds more positive feelings.

                          It has everything to do with what you posted.

                          There's interaction in video games. Which makes diagnosing their effects very complicated.

                          There's no interaction with TV.

                          I said nothing about video games. It was all about TV.

                          True, and as a reply to Jolly about video games. I agree with you but drawing a distinction between what you posted and what Jolly started with, that you replied to.

                          Please love yourself.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • JollyJ Jolly

                            @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                            @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                            @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                            @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                            Every time you turn on the TV you see people solving problems with firearms. A constant diet of that simply has to wire us differently.

                            They did this test awhile back: they took American college kids in upstate New York, and Canadian college kids in Toronto. Had them both fill out a fairly lengthy questionnaire testing what they thought of their age group in the opposite country.

                            Then they had the kids play Call of Duty against one another for an afternoon. Then they retook the questionnaire.

                            Overwhelmingly, opinions became much more favorable because understanding increased.

                            Video games can absolutely feed bad behaviors, but because those exact same games can feed good behaviors, too, I don't buy that it's a boogeyman.

                            All of which has exactly nothing to do with what I posted. I don't think it's even questionable that positive interaction breeds more positive feelings.

                            It has everything to do with what you posted.

                            There's interaction in video games. Which makes diagnosing their effects very complicated.

                            There's no interaction with TV.

                            True, but...

                            I like TCM. One of the reasons are the host's presentations before and after a movie, particularly a movie that has had a lasting effect on the public and the business. Plus, their restorations of old movies are top notch.

                            Last night, I was catching the Friday Night Double Feature for October (all spooky movies on Friday night this month). The movies were the 1931's Frankenstein and 1936's Bride of Frankenstein. In 1931, Universal inserted a disclaimer at the beginning of the movie, warning those with sensitive dispositions that this might not be the movie for them and if they wished to leave the theater, now was the time, before the start of the movie.

                            Compared to what goes on in a horror film of today, Frankenstein qualified as children's programming. Yet, when released, it was straight up Gothic Horror.

                            Does our current apathy or acceptance for blood and gore in media help fuel some of this current mental instability?

                            Aqua LetiferA Offline
                            Aqua LetiferA Offline
                            Aqua Letifer
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #47

                            @Jolly said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                            @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                            @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                            @Aqua-Letifer said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                            @Mik said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                            Every time you turn on the TV you see people solving problems with firearms. A constant diet of that simply has to wire us differently.

                            They did this test awhile back: they took American college kids in upstate New York, and Canadian college kids in Toronto. Had them both fill out a fairly lengthy questionnaire testing what they thought of their age group in the opposite country.

                            Then they had the kids play Call of Duty against one another for an afternoon. Then they retook the questionnaire.

                            Overwhelmingly, opinions became much more favorable because understanding increased.

                            Video games can absolutely feed bad behaviors, but because those exact same games can feed good behaviors, too, I don't buy that it's a boogeyman.

                            All of which has exactly nothing to do with what I posted. I don't think it's even questionable that positive interaction breeds more positive feelings.

                            It has everything to do with what you posted.

                            There's interaction in video games. Which makes diagnosing their effects very complicated.

                            There's no interaction with TV.

                            Does our current apathy or acceptance for blood and gore in media help fuel some of this current mental instability?

                            I dunno. On the one hand, I hate modern horror, for much of these reasons. On the other, Japan has always produced fucked up movies and TV but their thing is suicides, not homicides.

                            Please love yourself.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • George KG Offline
                              George KG Offline
                              George K
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #48

                              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • HoraceH Offline
                                HoraceH Offline
                                Horace
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #49

                                This business about looking for warning signs and doing something about them, is suspicious. How invasive are we going to be with the preventative actions, and how eager will we be to apply them?

                                Education is extremely important.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • JollyJ Offline
                                  JollyJ Offline
                                  Jolly
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #50

                                  It's a good point. We can only go so far, and we can only intervene when actions permit.

                                  So, what does a person do to make society take action?

                                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                  Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • JollyJ Jolly

                                    It's a good point. We can only go so far, and we can only intervene when actions permit.

                                    So, what does a person do to make society take action?

                                    Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                    Aqua LetiferA Offline
                                    Aqua Letifer
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #51

                                    @Jolly said in Shooting in Lewiston ME:

                                    It's a good point. We can only go so far, and we can only intervene when actions permit.

                                    So, what does a person do to make society take action?

                                    The Secret Service published a very good paper on this with respect to public schools. A list of various warning signs, what school administrators absolutely must do to be properly involved, and clear, practical intervention guidelines to not demonize troubled kids and how to get them the help they need before any bad shit happens.

                                    Naturally, nobody follows it.

                                    Please love yourself.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • JollyJ Offline
                                      JollyJ Offline
                                      Jolly
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #52

                                      No, they're too busy teaching Johnny not to read...

                                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • George KG Offline
                                        George KG Offline
                                        George K
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #53

                                        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • JollyJ Offline
                                          JollyJ Offline
                                          Jolly
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #54

                                          https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/army-said-maine-shooter-should-not-have-gun-requested-welfare-check/ar-AA1j7vEW?ocid=msedgntp&pc=W129&cvid=c2549b4a508f4b33b7483c083d74392d&ei=24

                                          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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