Interesting ‘4-lane’ model of the GOP primary
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An excerpt from a recent Matt Yglesias piece.
A four-lane primary
It’s a cliché to talk about presidential primaries in terms of lanes, but I’d say this GOP field has four of them.
One lane, the biggest and most important, is the “literally be Donald Trump” lane, and that lane is occupied by Donald Trump.
Then there’s the pre-Trump lane represented by Mike Pence, Nikki Haley, and Tim Scott, all of whom basically want the GOP to more closely resemble what it was before the 2016 primary cycle. That’s distinct from the anti-Trump lane where Christie is trying (and succeeding!) to get attention with a “Donald Trump is a seriously bad person” message that, while accurate, just does not resonate with many Republican voters. Then, last but not least, you have Ramaswamy and Ron DeSantis in the post-Trump lane. This is the lane that most current Republican Party politicians exist in. They believe that they have learned some valuable lessons about American politics and public policy from Trump’s success and that they can blend those lessons with their greater intelligence or skills or experience or discipline and be more effective than Trump ever was.
This is, I think, a pretty reasonable idea, and if Biden gets re-elected, we’ll probably see a formidable post-Trump nominee in 2028. The problem in 2024 is that we’re not post-Trump. Trump is standing right there.
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@jon-nyc said in Interesting ‘4-lane’ model of the GOP primary:
All that is implicit is they each have a cognizable slice of the electorate.
I get that that’s all you’ll grant. But if there is such a thing as a post Trump GOP as Yglasias describes, it’ll be recognized by its ideas and not its orange hair. DeSantis is nobody’s cult leader.
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True. Trump very much is, but DeSantis isn't. Maybe I should have paid more attention to your phrasing - it's not "just" a cult. There are replicable ideas or at least emotions for non-Trump people to emulate.
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True. Trump very much is, but DeSantis isn't. Maybe I should have paid more attention to your phrasing - it's not "just" a cult. There are replicable ideas or at least emotions for non-Trump people to emulate.
@jon-nyc said in Interesting ‘4-lane’ model of the GOP primary:
True. Trump very much is, but DeSantis isn't. Maybe I should have paid more attention to your phrasing - it's not "just" a cult. There are replicable ideas or at least emotions for non-Trump people to emulate.
TDS doesn’t exist, and Trump supporters are cultists. Thanks for the objective thoughtful assessment.
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@jon-nyc said in Interesting ‘4-lane’ model of the GOP primary:
Strawmandering clearly exists and, at least here, you are its main proponent.
...and everybody who holds you to stuff you've explicitly said, is strawmanning you. Thanks for the objective and thoughtful assessment.
Education is extremely important.
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Interesting, and I think true, analysis in the article, though I would say that Tim Scott is closer to the 4th lane than the second lane.
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Interesting, and I think true, analysis in the article, though I would say that Tim Scott is closer to the 4th lane than the second lane.
@taiwan_girl said in Interesting ‘4-lane’ model of the GOP primary:
Interesting, and I think true, analysis in the article, though I would say that Tim Scott is closer to the 4th lane than the second lane.
DeSantis and Ramaswamy are leaning into the culture wars, which is why I presume Yglesias buckets them together. Why do you put Scott there?
Education is extremely important.
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@jon-nyc said in Interesting ‘4-lane’ model of the GOP primary:
Nonsense.
Tell me why I'm wrong about what you think, and I'll happily admit to being wrong.
@Horace said in Interesting ‘4-lane’ model of the GOP primary:
@jon-nyc said in Interesting ‘4-lane’ model of the GOP primary:
Nonsense.
Tell me why I'm wrong about what you think, and I'll happily admit to being wrong.
I’ve never said that TDS doesn’t exist, indeed I’ve even given description of TDS behavior (as regards forum posting) when analagizing it to WDS some members have exhibited here.
Also the clear fact that many Trump supporters indeed exhibit cult-like behavior is not to make the general case that “Trump supporters are cultists”.
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@Horace said in Interesting ‘4-lane’ model of the GOP primary:
@jon-nyc said in Interesting ‘4-lane’ model of the GOP primary:
Nonsense.
Tell me why I'm wrong about what you think, and I'll happily admit to being wrong.
I’ve never said that TDS doesn’t exist, indeed I’ve even given description of TDS behavior (as regards forum posting) when analagizing it to WDS some members have exhibited here.
Also the clear fact that many Trump supporters indeed exhibit cult-like behavior is not to make the general case that “Trump supporters are cultists”.
@jon-nyc said in Interesting ‘4-lane’ model of the GOP primary:
@Horace said in Interesting ‘4-lane’ model of the GOP primary:
@jon-nyc said in Interesting ‘4-lane’ model of the GOP primary:
Nonsense.
Tell me why I'm wrong about what you think, and I'll happily admit to being wrong.
I’ve never said that TDS doesn’t exist, indeed I’ve even given description of TDS behavior (as regards forum posting) when analagizing it to WDS some members have exhibited here.
This word salad would make me proud. But ok. You admit TDS exists, in that you've described analogous behaviors to it, exhibited by the opposite tribe? is that it? That sounds like a funny way of admitting something. I don't think you really ever admitted that TDS is a thing. In fact I'll go ahead and call BS on that. You can't cite a single post where you say TDS exists.
Also the clear fact that many Trump supporters indeed exhibit cult-like behavior is not to make the general case that “Trump supporters are cultists”.
Fair enough, you don't think "all" Trump supporters are in a cult. Only "some". I was incorrect in my wording.
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Your claim was that I “explicitly said” TDS doesn’t exist. The burden is in you to show that. There are no posts I could conceivably point to to prove that I never “explicitly said” that, whereas if I did say it, there would be a single post that would make your case.
I’ll wait.
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Your claim was that I “explicitly said” TDS doesn’t exist. The burden is in you to show that. There are no posts I could conceivably point to to prove that I never “explicitly said” that, whereas if I did say it, there would be a single post that would make your case.
I’ll wait.
@jon-nyc said in Interesting ‘4-lane’ model of the GOP primary:
Your claim was that I “explicitly said” TDS doesn’t exist. The burden is in you to show that. There are no posts I could conceivably point to to prove that I never “explicitly said” that, whereas if I did say it, there would be a single post that would make your case.
I’ll wait.
No I’ve asked you and you don’t respond. I’ve inferred my answer from there. As close as you’ll come in this thread is to admit the concept exists in the minds of people who say it. You’ll go to quite some lengths to prove me wrong, it’s impressive. But assertions of the existence of ideas is not quite the answer I was looking for. You don’t think TDS exists, or if you do, you won’t admit it.
