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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors

Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors

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  • X xenon

    @Doctor-Phibes Lots of things are better relative to the 1600s. My comment was more along the lines that only certain political beliefs are kosher in a corporate environment and many Christian tenets fall outside of that.

    It’d be better if we all kept our political shit to ourselves. We clearly can’t seem to tolerate politics different than our own (the collective “we”)

    Doctor PhibesD Offline
    Doctor PhibesD Offline
    Doctor Phibes
    wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
    #25

    @xenon said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:

    @Doctor-Phibes Lots of things are better relative to the 1600s. My comment was more along the lines that only certain political beliefs are kosher in a corporate environment and many Christian tenets fall outside of that.

    As a vaguely related aside, I must admit from a cultural perspective I much preferred working in a small company - nowadays what would be called a start-up. The personal relationships were much stronger, and there wasn't this pressure to confirm politically, religiously and so on - quite the opposite in fact, the daytime banter sometimes got quite heated. I made genuine friends there, which doesn't happen in the same way in the larger office environment. When I left, I actually shed a few tears, because I knew what I was leaving.

    Obviously, the money was terrible. It pays much better to be a corporate drone.

    I was only joking

    1 Reply Last reply
    • markM Offline
      markM Offline
      mark
      wrote on last edited by
      #26

      When I ultimately take a new position, I don't want to hear about or discuss political or religious views in, or outside the office TBH.

      Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
      • X xenon

        I don’t like how Christians now get criticized for following the tenets of their religion (even though they may differ from sect to sect).

        It’s tough to be an openly Christian person in the prevailing culture. (At least the circles I run in)

        AxtremusA Offline
        AxtremusA Offline
        Axtremus
        wrote on last edited by
        #27

        @xenon said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:

        I don’t like how Christians now get criticized for following the tenets of their religion (even though they may differ from sect to sect).

        It's not a Christian-specific phenomenon. Muslims and Jews get the same treatment too when they follow tenets that are further away from the prevailing societal norm at particular time and space.

        Heck, it's not even specific to followers of religions. Confucian scholars were criticized for following old teachings too strictly or not knowing how to adapt to new societal norms.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • markM mark

          When I ultimately take a new position, I don't want to hear about or discuss political or religious views in, or outside the office TBH.

          Doctor PhibesD Offline
          Doctor PhibesD Offline
          Doctor Phibes
          wrote on last edited by
          #28

          @mark said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:

          When I ultimately take a new position, I don't want to hear about or discuss political or religious views in, or outside the office TBH.

          That's what I said! Then I got a job as the church caretaker.

          It didn't end well.

          I was only joking

          1 Reply Last reply
          • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

            There's two alternatives:

            1. God, a being of infinite power and majesty really cares about the gender of the person leading people in their adulation of him.
            2. Paul was a product of his time and thought of women as being somewhat inferior.

            Which seems more likely?

            Yes, I know, the book says the former. But who compiled the book?

            The truth is out there somewhere.

            JollyJ Offline
            JollyJ Offline
            Jolly
            wrote on last edited by
            #29

            @Doctor-Phibes said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:

            There's two alternatives:

            1. God, a being of infinite power and majesty really cares about the gender of the person leading people in their adulation of him.
            2. Paul was a product of his time and thought of women as being somewhat inferior.

            Which seems more likely?

            Yes, I know, the book says the former. But who compiled the book?

            The truth is out there somewhere.

            I'll take what's behind Door #1, please.

            God, being of infinite power and majesty, created male and female, He gave each unique talents and responsibilities. He also gave them shared responsibilities.

            The book is The Book 📖. I'm not Presbyterian or some other Christian denomination that has fallen into apostasy. I believe the Bible is inerrant and the inspired Word of God

            Baptists have a strong history of the Priesthood of the Believer. There is no intercessory between man and God. There is only the Holy Word and trying to study and walk in the light it gives us.

            If it makes one uncomfortable or convicted, so be it. It's always about trying to improve while on the journey.

            Most people would be better to quit expending so much effort on chasing or trying to justify loopholes, and just live the Word.

            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

            Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
            • JollyJ Jolly

              @Doctor-Phibes said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:

              There's two alternatives:

              1. God, a being of infinite power and majesty really cares about the gender of the person leading people in their adulation of him.
              2. Paul was a product of his time and thought of women as being somewhat inferior.

              Which seems more likely?

              Yes, I know, the book says the former. But who compiled the book?

              The truth is out there somewhere.

              I'll take what's behind Door #1, please.

              God, being of infinite power and majesty, created male and female, He gave each unique talents and responsibilities. He also gave them shared responsibilities.

              The book is The Book 📖. I'm not Presbyterian or some other Christian denomination that has fallen into apostasy. I believe the Bible is inerrant and the inspired Word of God

              Baptists have a strong history of the Priesthood of the Believer. There is no intercessory between man and God. There is only the Holy Word and trying to study and walk in the light it gives us.

              If it makes one uncomfortable or convicted, so be it. It's always about trying to improve while on the journey.

              Most people would be better to quit expending so much effort on chasing or trying to justify loopholes, and just live the Word.

              Doctor PhibesD Offline
              Doctor PhibesD Offline
              Doctor Phibes
              wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
              #30

              @Jolly said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:

              Baptists have a strong history of the Priesthood of the Believer. There is no intercessory between man and God. There is only the Holy Word and trying to study and walk in the light it gives us.

              If it makes one uncomfortable or convicted, so be it. It's always about trying to improve while on the journey.

              Most people would be better to quit expending so much effort on chasing or trying to justify loopholes, and just live the Word.

              I'm sure there are others who are much better qualified to talk about the history of Christianity than me, but my understanding is that the belief in the literal truth of The Book as interpreted now isn't something that goes back to the beginning of the church, but was something that developed over time.

              So, in some ways that's a modern interpretation too.

              The Roman Catholics think they're the one true church, too, going back to the first leader of the church.

              There's an old joke that ends with the punchline 'Die, heretic scum!', which I'm too lazy to type out, but I think we've all heard.

              https://www.douglasjacoby.com/heretic-scum/

              I was only joking

              1 Reply Last reply
              • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                There's two alternatives:

                1. God, a being of infinite power and majesty really cares about the gender of the person leading people in their adulation of him.
                2. Paul was a product of his time and thought of women as being somewhat inferior.

                Which seems more likely?

                Yes, I know, the book says the former. But who compiled the book?

                The truth is out there somewhere.

                taiwan_girlT Offline
                taiwan_girlT Offline
                taiwan_girl
                wrote on last edited by
                #31

                @Doctor-Phibes said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:

                There's two alternatives:

                1. God, a being of infinite power and majesty really cares about the gender of the person leading people in their adulation of him.
                2. Paul was a product of his time and thought of women as being somewhat inferior.

                Which seems more likely?

                Yes, I know, the book says the former. But who compiled the book?

                The truth is out there somewhere.

                I would vote for #2. Again, it seems like if something literal in the Bible fits what a person want to prove, then the Bible should be taken literally. However, if the literal words in the Bible dont make sense or are really outrageous, then the person can say that the Bible is giving an analogy and should not be taken literally.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • JollyJ Offline
                  JollyJ Offline
                  Jolly
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #32

                  Ever read the New Testament?

                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                  RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                  • JollyJ Jolly

                    Ever read the New Testament?

                    RenaudaR Offline
                    RenaudaR Offline
                    Renauda
                    wrote on last edited by Renauda
                    #33

                    @Jolly

                    Ever read TG’s first post in this thread?
                    I think you’ll find your answer there.

                    FWIW, I believe Thomas Jefferson’s abridgement of the New Testament is more than sufficient in presenting a person with the moral lesson’s of the Bible. It is also devoid of the supernatural events attributed to God and the man, Jesus Christ.

                    The notion of the Word as you call it, is in my view, a construct of early Church scholars determined to stamp out heterodoxy among believers.

                    Elbows up!

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • JollyJ Offline
                      JollyJ Offline
                      Jolly
                      wrote on last edited by Jolly
                      #34

                      Funny, you don't look like a cute Asian-descent female, but self-appointed identities are so hard to fathom nowadays.

                      No, the Bible taken as a whole is an intertwined message of God to the Jews and later to the Jews and Gentiles. It was written over a period of 1500 years by many people. Men have a very hard time predicting the future, but almost 25% of the Bible is prophetic, yet those prophecies have not been proven false (some have yet to pass, true, but stay tuned 🙂 ). Most other "holy" books don't contain prophecy or have been proven not 100% correct, which is a sign of false prophecy.

                      The Bible has not been proven false by modern archeology. In every case, the buildings were there, the mountain was there, the civilization was there, the people were there. Hundreds of archeological sites have been discovered, simply by following clues within the Bible.

                      The Bible is unique. Most religions teach man will receive his after-life rewards through good works. The Bible says God sent his only Son down here to die for man's sins, and that whoever believes in Him shall have everlasting Life. We are saved by Grace, not by works.

                      I was going to suggest to TG she read the Gospel of John. Perhaps you might want to do so, also...

                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                      RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                      • JollyJ Jolly

                        Funny, you don't look like a cute Asian-descent female, but self-appointed identities are so hard to fathom nowadays.

                        No, the Bible taken as a whole is an intertwined message of God to the Jews and later to the Jews and Gentiles. It was written over a period of 1500 years by many people. Men have a very hard time predicting the future, but almost 25% of the Bible is prophetic, yet those prophecies have not been proven false (some have yet to pass, true, but stay tuned 🙂 ). Most other "holy" books don't contain prophecy or have been proven not 100% correct, which is a sign of false prophecy.

                        The Bible has not been proven false by modern archeology. In every case, the buildings were there, the mountain was there, the civilization was there, the people were there. Hundreds of archeological sites have been discovered, simply by following clues within the Bible.

                        The Bible is unique. Most religions teach man will receive his after-life rewards through good works. The Bible says God sent his only Son down here to die for man's sins, and that whoever believes in Him shall have everlasting Life. We are saved by Grace, not by works.

                        I was going to suggest to TG she read the Gospel of John. Perhaps you might want to do so, also...

                        RenaudaR Offline
                        RenaudaR Offline
                        Renauda
                        wrote on last edited by Renauda
                        #35

                        @Jolly

                        Funny, you don't look like a cute Asian-descent female, but self-appointed identities are so hard to fathom nowadays.

                        No I don’t, but I do read what she and others write and retain some degree of recollection of what is being stated. I can’t help it if you do not or are just too lazy.

                        Have read the Gospel of John. There are some lessons there. Still don’t buy into the supernatural aspects that gloss its wisdom.

                        You however are free to go ahead and believe what you want. It’s obviously essential that you do for your own sake.

                        Elbows up!

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • JollyJ Offline
                          JollyJ Offline
                          Jolly
                          wrote on last edited by Jolly
                          #36

                          You know, the Church of Atheism is strong in today's world. I really don't see where it offers hope or a better way for man to live.

                          John is the Sinner's Gospel. Lot in there. Whosoever believeth helps it make sense.

                          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • RenaudaR Offline
                            RenaudaR Offline
                            Renauda
                            wrote on last edited by Renauda
                            #37

                            Atheism? Sinners?

                            You’re certainly not shy of throwing out labels. But I understand it, you are a self admitted evangelizing Baptist. I don’t take your view to heart or seriously.

                            As for my personal beliefs, it does not preclude a Creator it is just not in the Christian sense. I have more in common with Jefferson, Beethoven and Napoleon in this regard than Hitchens and Dawkins.

                            It’s also really none of your business how I choose to regulate my spiritual beliefs.

                            Elbows up!

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • JollyJ Offline
                              JollyJ Offline
                              Jolly
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #38

                              But it's your business to comment on mine?

                              Go clean your own yard, then.

                              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • RenaudaR Offline
                                RenaudaR Offline
                                Renauda
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #39

                                When you put into my face, yes I will comment.

                                Elbows up!

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • JollyJ Offline
                                  JollyJ Offline
                                  Jolly
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #40

                                  It's in your face, because you feel convicted?

                                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • RenaudaR Offline
                                    RenaudaR Offline
                                    Renauda
                                    wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                    #41

                                    No, just content with my lot.

                                    How about you, Grand Inquisitor?

                                    Elbows up!

                                    JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • 89th8 Offline
                                      89th8 Offline
                                      89th
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #42

                                      Very much agree with @Jolly in this thread. Admittedly the male-only church leadership can be seen as a stricter understanding of the Bible but it’s certainly not inconsistent with its teaching.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • RenaudaR Renauda

                                        No, just content with my lot.

                                        How about you, Grand Inquisitor?

                                        JollyJ Offline
                                        JollyJ Offline
                                        Jolly
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #43

                                        @Renauda said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:

                                        No, just content with my lot.

                                        How about you, Grand Inquisitor?

                                        No inquisitor. We've established you're halfway there, so I'm just trying to drag you across the Finish Line

                                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • taiwan_girlT Offline
                                          taiwan_girlT Offline
                                          taiwan_girl
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #44

                                          I am not against religion - in fact, I believe that it offers a lot of benefits: a sense of belonging, generally a good moral code, purpose in life, etc.

                                          But, I do have a couple of "problems"

                                          For example, the Bible being taken litereral. It is a book written 2000 years ago and a lot of it is "as told to". I think that it is pretty much agreed that eyewitness accounts are often more inaccurate than accurate.

                                          How can one religion claims to be the one and only true religion. Why is Muslim say that theirs is the only true religion? Same with Christian, Buddhist, etc.

                                          Ultimately, religion (for my opinion) comes down to faith and not any real "facts". Because for every "fact" a Buddhist gives out that "proves" they are the correct religion, a Christian (or other religion) has their own "fact" to "prove" their case.

                                          But, as I said, I do think that religion can provide a lot of benefits to people.

                                          JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
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